Identify OCTANT maker and years?

[Kanadiana]

Hi Folks,

Any nautical types who might have any answers to the origins of this old Octant.

A distinguishing mark and probably best hope to identify origins is on the scale part, right above the "50" ... its an image of a small "ANCHOR". Can spot no signatures ... perhaps it was 'worn off" of the ivory? Someone suggested US Navy uses anchors to mark things but I don't think the US Navy was happening back when this octant was made/used.

The octant itself was said to have been used by my partners Great great Uncle or somesuch. Partners family migrated here as United Empire Loyalists to Albany New York area then eventually up here to Canada.

OCTANT: Ebony, brass, ivory. one small rectangular piece of ivory on the back. In good condition probably still very usable, has most bits, 2 empty slots where attachments could fit, and an empty spot where a marker/pencil? would have fit but is missing.

The closest I've found online was a reproduction of a "Barry, London" octant.

Anyways ... is anyone familiar with who used "anchor" images as marks, or knows anything about octants (I don't think its a sextant, too old, and I'm not sure what a "quadrant" is)

I post in here because this thing is British I'm sure

Thanks in advance

[Kanadiana]

http://www.prices4antiques.com/itemsummary/115707.htm

[Mike]

Kanadiana,

You certainly have had my Grey stuff working hard.

There were or are three items that were used to navigate the oceans. The first a Back staff was used by all the great sailors and probably was invented by the Polynesians. This was two pieces of wood, one long (1 ft) marked with graduations. The second, the shorter was dissected and able to transverse along the along one. The navigator would place his eye a the end of the long shaft and by lining the top of the second to a star moon or sun would be able to derive an angle there by calculating Latitude (Distance) then calculate his position

The Octant was used for the same purpose but in stead of having a strait piece of wood, it was triangular in shape with the base curved and graduated to 45degrees, (1/8 of a circle) It was in fact a forerunner of the sextant but without the ability to use the lenses to bring the object sighted to bear and the angle sighted.

The Sextant is still used today by maritime cadets although, with the modern GPS it is almost extinct.

I hope that this explanation clear enough.. It’s a difficult subject to explain without diagrams

Aye
Mike

[harry hackedoff]

Heyup Karmen,
as m`lord Mikey hath spake, it was an earlier form of sextant without the lenses. A huge improvement on what was available prior to it`s invention. i.e. knack all but educated guess work.
Early navigators who deserve more credit for the efforts they made are the Vikings. I think it is without doubt that they "discovered" North America in the eleventh century. They had primitive compasses and had discovered a certain quartz which would allow them to see the sun on totally overcast days.
Any hoo, here`s yer octant.



A navigational instrument designed to measure the altitude of celestial bodies, ie., the value of the angle between a target object and the horizon along the meridian. The latitude of the observer, one of the coordinates needed along with the longitude to plot one's location on the earth, can be found, by adding the culmination of the altitude (90° altitude) at the moment of culmination of a heavenly body (Sun, polar star, etc.) to it's declination, [found in the tables for the particular day).

[Kanadiana]

Hello Mike and HH ... you guys are great and I thank you both for your time and trouble to answer me

Interesting history lessons through this search, for sure!!!

I'm still trying to identify who would have actually made this octant and used a small ANCHOR image/symbol as their "makers mark" ... if I can get an answer to that then I can narrow my search to a maker, then go from there as to age and current value.

(It would also be really interesting to find out where this little octant has been so I can add this info to partners family history to hand down to his kids ... history in general is fascinating to me ... I must be getting real old )

Anyways ... think SMALL ANCHOR MAKERS MARK ... WHODUNNIT?

And Mike ... I'm so glad you have some little grey cells working for you (eek the cheek)

[harry hackedoff]

You need to post a phot of the anchor, Karmen.
When Sextants were first made they were fairly expensive to manufacture, as their use became more common, the price dropped Go to a modern chandlers and see how cheap they are today, and they are absolutely still taught because unlike Magellan or Garmin GPS, they don`t require batteries Mikey .
I may be wrong(really Harry ) but I would think that the USN have not used the Octant because they have not been around long enough.I would imagine that the Sextant had replaced the octant by the mid seventeenth century but wtf would I know? That probably throws into question great uncle Fester using one on his way over from the old world

[Kanadiana]

You need to post a phot of the anchor, Karmen.
When Sextants were first made they were fairly expensive to manufacture, as their use became more common, the price dropped Go to a modern chandlers and see how cheap they are today, and they are absolutely still taught because unlike Magellan or Garmin GPS, they don`t require batteries Mikey .
I may be wrong(really Harry ) but I would think that the USN have not used the Octant because they have not been around long enough.I would imagine that the Sextant had replaced the octant by the mid seventeenth century but wtf would I know? That probably throws into question great uncle Fester using one on his way over from the old world

Hi HH ... this octant that we have was used by a Great Great Uncle or somesuch, of my partners, and probably was made in the 1700's ... yeah, I read that sextants came after 1800 and found a little blurb to add to your comment. Scroll down the page of the link I post and you'll see the blurb PLUS an image of an octant that looks just like the one we have. I wish i could read whats written on that label/paper beside the octant display ARGH! Our octant has an elevated bit down the full length of the moving 'arm" (as does the one in that photo) ... earlier ones, from what I've seen, don't. (I suspect ours was made mid to late 1700's) The later sextants/octants had those "spyglasses" attached to the arm.

http://www.mdarchives.state.md.us/msa/s ... phers.html

Octant

The octant uses an eyepiece and mirror to measure the altitude of heavenly bodies. It has an arc of one-eighth of a circle, but its design permits the measurement of altitude up to 90 degrees. Octants remained in use by navigators until 1800 when they were replaced by sextants.

Thanks HH ... this mystery shall be solved ... I'm determined!!!

:fadein:

[Kanadiana]

PS: I can't post photos. No webpage to put them to and link to.

[Mike]

Kanadiana,
Please check out this URL, it goes further into the history of Navigation than I could. It also talks of hadley's octant. As for the small anchor mark...I'd hazard a guess that is the makers mark.


http://www.mat.uc.pt/~helios/Mestre/Nov ... 1iflan.htm

Aye
Mike

[Mike]

Kanadiana

I can't post photos. No webpage to put them to and link to. Dear Lady do what we all do..use a Pix hosting site... Go to www.photobucket.com, open up an account (free) and upload as many Pix as you like....

There is a idiots guide to posting Pix on here some where...Not that I think you are an Idiot

Take care and I'd be interested in the outcome of your little conundrum

Aye
Mike

[Kanadiana]

Kanadiana,
Please check out this URL, it goes further into the history of Navigation than I could. It also talks of hadley's octant. As for the small anchor mark...I'd hazard a guess that is the makers mark.


http://www.mat.uc.pt/~helios/Mestre/Nov ... 1iflan.htm

Aye
Mike

Hi Mike,

Thank you ... I agree regards the anchor mark as makers mark

There may well have been a name on the small bit of ivory under the arm, but it looks as though the movement back and forth of the arm rubbed it off as its eith discoloration from the arm, or smudged print/ink/whatever.

By the way ... this octant is very much like a Hadley's ... who knows, maybe it is. The anchor is signifigant to maker I'm sure.

I'll check out that link ... thank you!

[Kanadiana]

MIKE: Well ... some think I'm an idiot so you wouldn't be far off the mark to call me one GRIN

I'm off to open that account right now

Thanks once again!