Sharon's party, Likud, have finally agreed to impliment his revised withdrawal plan from Gaza. It means removing ALL Jewish settlements from the area, plus 4 of the 21 settlements in the West Bank.
This is progress. But is it just sham? Undoubtedly: Yes.
This is going in the right direction, but the fact remains that Israel occuppies the territory that the Palestinians claim. Thet still want it back and so the terrorism will not subside. What will probably happen now is for Sharon to kick back and proclaim 'my work here is done', and his international friends will no doubt give him a pat on the back. This will prevent them continuing progressive talks.
It is really just a way to appease the international community following the string of condemnations from the likes of the UN.
In essence then, this could do far more harm than good. It has not gone far enough, but the Israelis will claim they have 'done their bit' and be unwilling to compromise further.
What I find astonishing is that the major news channels have not covered this. I do a lot of reading of newpapers and internet channels but have found it in few places. Please correct me if i'm wrong. The impact this could have across the entire region could be significant.
Mike
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Progress?
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Frank S.
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As things appear to go in the right direction there, they are heating up from Lebanon to Syria.
Which is fine with Washington. You know what they think of Syria...
It's in Sharon's interest that Bush win a second term.
He can always reverse himself (Sharon) later and again squeeze Palestinians after the next suicide bombing.
Psychologically I think Bush is punked by Sharon. When Bush was growing up, his father wasn't around much, always travelling around Texas and California on oil business. Left to his own devices young George was restless and ran into a few troubles which plagued him all the way through college, like many other kids. He also suffered from the death of his sister after a long illness, and that was hard.
He managed to restore some order to his life after accepting Jesus as his savior, but you see, that is an outside influence.
Sharon doesn't need to "talk to Yaweh" (or whatever he calls Him): Sharon creates turmoil and chaos and navigates it as skillfully as an old catfish in a cloudy pond.
I think he definitely has the upper hand when dealing with George, but knows he has to cool it when it comes to Gaza, if only for world opinion and US opinion. He also has to contend with the internal problem of refuseniks. For the time being.
Which is fine with Washington. You know what they think of Syria...
It's in Sharon's interest that Bush win a second term.
He can always reverse himself (Sharon) later and again squeeze Palestinians after the next suicide bombing.
Psychologically I think Bush is punked by Sharon. When Bush was growing up, his father wasn't around much, always travelling around Texas and California on oil business. Left to his own devices young George was restless and ran into a few troubles which plagued him all the way through college, like many other kids. He also suffered from the death of his sister after a long illness, and that was hard.
He managed to restore some order to his life after accepting Jesus as his savior, but you see, that is an outside influence.
Sharon doesn't need to "talk to Yaweh" (or whatever he calls Him): Sharon creates turmoil and chaos and navigates it as skillfully as an old catfish in a cloudy pond.
I think he definitely has the upper hand when dealing with George, but knows he has to cool it when it comes to Gaza, if only for world opinion and US opinion. He also has to contend with the internal problem of refuseniks. For the time being.
They are only pulling out of the bits that they don't want or that are to expensive to keep secure. They will not allow the Palestinians full access to their country. All goods coming and leaving will have to be approved by the Israelis. The will also keep control of all the water and coastline in or bordering Palestine. When they built airports and docks the Israelis came in and smashed them up, so that they can keep control of every thing that the Palestinians do, and the Israalis say that this is a good deal, I would hate to think what they feel a bad deal is.
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Edwards159
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Spannerman
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Israel is the 51st state of America, in all but name, Jordan is no threat, Egypt have a peace accord and the U.S. has placed a buffer zone between Iran and Israel. Syria is the next to be brought into line which will then secure the border with Lebanon and the Golan heights.
As for Ariel Sharon he is as Gung-ho as George W. Bush.
As for Ariel Sharon he is as Gung-ho as George W. Bush.
It's hard to talk about this without sounding like a conspiracy theorist but is it not quite a simple equasion?
America is totally pro Israel because America is full of rich influential Jews.
Of course there will be other factors but can someone confirm this. One can't say anything critical about Israel without being an anti-semite, so this angle seems never to be mentioned in the media.
America is totally pro Israel because America is full of rich influential Jews.
Of course there will be other factors but can someone confirm this. One can't say anything critical about Israel without being an anti-semite, so this angle seems never to be mentioned in the media.
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Spannerman
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Not FULL, but many!Snib wrote:
America is totally pro Israel because America is full of rich influential Jews.
One can't say anything critical about Israel without being an anti-semite, so this angle seems never to be mentioned in the media.
Why can't you be critical of Israel? I am against much of what Ariel Sharon is up to but that doesn't make me anti-Semetic, like I am against some of Dubya's Administrations policies and again that doesn't make me anti-American.
Snib,
The Jews are nowhere near as influential in the US as many like to make out.
And contrary to common belief, the swing of Jews is in favour of the Democrats, not the Republicans, so this does not answer the questions as to why the USA lets Israel get away with so much.
I totally understand your viewpoint on the 'anti-semitic' side of things. The difficulty is that we all know Israel does so much wrong, and condem them for it. But pretty much EVERY Jew I meet/hear of has unflinching support for Israel and its policies (I know this isn't 100% true as there are protests in Israel that support further withdrawal). This really gets my blood boiling. And does arouse some shameful anti-semitic thoughts, but they're not totally unfounded.
Mike
The Jews are nowhere near as influential in the US as many like to make out.
And contrary to common belief, the swing of Jews is in favour of the Democrats, not the Republicans, so this does not answer the questions as to why the USA lets Israel get away with so much.
I totally understand your viewpoint on the 'anti-semitic' side of things. The difficulty is that we all know Israel does so much wrong, and condem them for it. But pretty much EVERY Jew I meet/hear of has unflinching support for Israel and its policies (I know this isn't 100% true as there are protests in Israel that support further withdrawal). This really gets my blood boiling. And does arouse some shameful anti-semitic thoughts, but they're not totally unfounded.
Mike
The whole thing gets me thinking about conspiract theories. Perhaps the power in the US is not a result of the number of Jews living there but the status and wealth/influence of a few. Huge merchant banking families for example.
It seems that, after the holocaust, the Jews (perhaps rightly?) have a chip on their shoulder, but not just with Germany. Any criticism of Isreal will be labelled 'anti semitic'.
Yet their 'eye for an eye' ideology worries me. It is as extreme as anything Islam advocates.
If their influence in the US is slight, why are Dubya and the Republicans so unfalteringly pro Israel? Rumsfeld et al perhaps?
Lastly, I was told that the average IQ of a European Jew is 115. Highest in the world by a long way; truly amazing I feel. Followed by Japanese at about 108. They have dominated world chess for the last 200 years and are basically a very clever lot. Could this be the result of such harsh treatment throughout Europe for so long? Survival of the very fittest/most able?
It seems that, after the holocaust, the Jews (perhaps rightly?) have a chip on their shoulder, but not just with Germany. Any criticism of Isreal will be labelled 'anti semitic'.
Yet their 'eye for an eye' ideology worries me. It is as extreme as anything Islam advocates.
If their influence in the US is slight, why are Dubya and the Republicans so unfalteringly pro Israel? Rumsfeld et al perhaps?
Lastly, I was told that the average IQ of a European Jew is 115. Highest in the world by a long way; truly amazing I feel. Followed by Japanese at about 108. They have dominated world chess for the last 200 years and are basically a very clever lot. Could this be the result of such harsh treatment throughout Europe for so long? Survival of the very fittest/most able?
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cambridgebloke
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There is a new generation of African Americans up and coming in the USA, rich and powerful, they control the entertainments industry and the rap/hip hop marketplace which by 2006 is set to be bigger than the country music market.
What happens when there are as many powerful blacks as jews, do we find ourselves in Africa fighting to stop someone they have taken a dislike to?
America is our friend and ally, no doubt if we needed her she would be with us against all odds. But the above is food for thought.
What happens when there are as many powerful blacks as jews, do we find ourselves in Africa fighting to stop someone they have taken a dislike to?
America is our friend and ally, no doubt if we needed her she would be with us against all odds. But the above is food for thought.
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Spannerman
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That IS interesting as my IQ has been rated at 125 but mine was based on some trivia including a tap filling a barrel of water up to the brim would have to be at X gallons per hour under Y pressure whilst the two holes in the barrell was losing N gallons per hour, how long would it take to fill the barrell?Snib wrote: Lastly, I was told that the average IQ of a European Jew is 115. Highest in the world by a long way; truly amazing I feel. Followed by Japanese at about 108. They have dominated world chess for the last 200 years and are basically a very clever lot. Could this be the result of such harsh treatment throughout Europe for so long? Survival of the very fittest/most able?
I guess if I was working in trillions of $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ I could be as clever as a Jew!
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Spannerman
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DON'T BE SUCH A TW@T You may even get nominated as W$%*£& of the week! 
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Wholley
- Guest
Spanners,
Carol Vorderman is a babe.
I would'nt mind eerrrr.....you know.
With all these bright young sparks joining the forum,who know it all,from their hippy college professors I decided to take an IQ test just to prove that I still have a brain.
Seems I don't.
Strangely enough,I don't really give a sh*t
Only 115.
Wholley.
Carol Vorderman is a babe.
I would'nt mind eerrrr.....you know.
With all these bright young sparks joining the forum,who know it all,from their hippy college professors I decided to take an IQ test just to prove that I still have a brain.
Seems I don't.
Strangely enough,I don't really give a sh*t
Only 115.
Wholley.
