3 CDO BDE to include 1 RIFLES

[Stacka83]

Just to add my slant on this,

And im going to piss a few people off before I start so sorry to all i offend....

....Cutting a very long story short I have cancelled my application to the Royal Marines (mainly becasue I failed my PRMC by a nats hair and have no job at the moment) so my next step was either the Rifles or The Para's im yet to do the assessment at Lichfield.

Any how due to all the talk about the Rifles role and 3 Commando I decided to do a bit of e-mailing and searching with the AFCO's and senior recruiting personal.

The long and short of it is, no one knows what role is going to be designated to the Rifles, but as for opperations in Afghanistan they will continue to do "foward and relevent role" (read into that as you wish)

As for the future, ALL! Rifles will have to undertake 32 weeks training and current serving members will have to do training updates. i.e AACC.

Personally I have huge respect for the Marines, and I regret the fact I cant financially support myself untill the next PRMC. But I have also reviewed the the Rifles ethos and history and im still quite impressed. So in my situation i feel the Rifles will be a good asset to 3 Commando.

Im not there yet admitadly, and I feel no one knows how the Rifles will put themselves across in their new role but i certainly hope it is the same as other Commando units 29 and 59.

I certainly will hold the commado ethos in my head whilst doing my job.

Stacka

[Sarastro]

At the end of the day the AACC was designed for attached ranks to do their jobs - be it engineering, med, arty, logistics, whatever - not to make them Bootnecks; there is no doubt it's easier to get your green lid through the All Arms than through 32 weeks graft.

It's not as if the Rifles just wander in off the street and get given a capbadge. They have their period of basic graft too even if it's a couple of weeks shorter (though barely, when you factor in AACC). But in the end, isn't the AACC meant to test your fitness as a soldier, not just your phys ability? If people are passing who shouldn't, then blame the Royal team running AACC. Otherwise as far as I'm concerned, Royal or not anyone who passes AACC has earned the same beret as you, and the same respect due.

Picking holes in who-did-what-more otherwise is pointless, because every individual has it tougher or easier in different degrees; ie that old bloke who went through the AACC as part of that Commando program clearly would have had a f@#k load harder time than some spry 19-year old. I might also suggest that some people have a harder time of AACC for not having the 32 weeks behind them - yes, Royal basic is nails, but it also prepares you well for the final test. Someone without the benefit of that preparation or who has had to do it on their own, might be showing a damn sight more balls & determination by grinding through AACC than a RM recruit. But that's all beside the point - the green beret means you have achieved a standard, and everyone who has earned it is due the same respect for that standard.

The rest is just capbadge pissing contests, in which case; squad, face to the wind, unload!

EDIT: Pisspisspiss, pointless thread ressurection, sorry, forgot I was looking through old posts.

[Sarastro]

Double post too! Blinding display of internet competence this.

[bigdog]

The AACC does not need to make people into bootnecks either. A Serjeant or Captain with four op tours under his belt does not need to go through the same training as a recruit walking off the street. They will have a wealth of experience which can only add to the brigade.
There is alot of rubbish written on this thread, some from people who have fallen at the earliest hurdle to getting in the forces, or who are nowhere near getting in. I feel that the comments from Artist and druadan about commando Logs are extremely pertinent however and given the expansion that Commando engineers have experienced it is surely not long before the Commando logs is expanded.

Anyone who gains the green beret will have earned it and I dont feel that it is a case of becoming bootnecks by the backdoor. Guys who joined the rifles chose to join them, gain their own green beret with its own history.

[Stinky]

Had my old section comander come in today whose part of 1 Rifles, just come back from a 3-4 month jungle exercise. Before they go to afgan, they are part of the large exercise with 3 brigade. I don't want to give away what they will be doing (or what they have been told they will be doing) but I never heard anything about 1 Rifles being left behind.

[Sully]

The AACC does not need to make people into bootnecks either.

That's right, it doesn't need to .......and it doesn't.

Anyone who gains the green beret will have earned it and I dont feel that it is a case of becoming bootnecks by the backdoor

Bootnecks are (or were - at the end of the day I can only speak from personal experience) forged by 32 weeks of hell at Lympstone where the alternative to cracking on is the dole. I met some great attached ranks but that's all they ever were - never bootnecks and never will be until they do the full ish. Maybe ask yourself how many bootnecks would queue up to put a perce badge on their uniform.

With all due respect to a proud and no doubt very able regiment it looks like dilution to me. I never thought the powers that be would bin the Corps like this...not with a bang but a whimper.

[bigdog]

Maybe ask yourself how many bootnecks would queue up to put a perce badge on their uniform.

Well plenty wear wings.
Also the commando dagger is not a matelot badge.

[Wholley]

Just wait till Broon has finished with you lot.
He's going to complete what Blair started and what Clinton wanted to do in the US.
"Royal Marines?"What for?we have no need.
Warships? Why?There is no war(So I'm told)
Aircraft?Too expensive.
Aircraft Carriers?No need we have no Aircraft.
Hillary Clinton will sort out the planets problems with her"Village"So you can go home and wait for the bang.
Cap badges are the last of your problems,it's your politicians that need sorting

[Artist]

Just wait till Broon has finished with you lot.
He's going to complete what Blair started and what Clinton wanted to do in the US.
"Royal Marines?"What for?we have no need.
Warships? Why?There is no war(So I'm told)
Aircraft?Too expensive.
Aircraft Carriers?No need we have no Aircraft.
Hillary Clinton will sort out the planets problems with her"Village"So you can go home and wait for the bang.
Cap badges are the last of your problems,it's your politicians that need sorting

Spot on that man!

Roll on the revolution!!!!

Artist

[misterpurple]

Roll on the revolution!!!!

Fawkes.

[Artist]

Fawkes.

The only man to enter Parliament with good intentions!

Artist

[Sarastro]

Maybe ask yourself how many bootnecks would queue up to put a perce badge on their uniform.

No offence Sul, but the Army lads aren't queueing up to put the Globe & Laurel on their uniform, but the commando dagger. Which, if you remember, was originally a perce badge...

PS See bigdog got there before me!

[Sully]

No offence at all mate but I think it's missing the point. What I was getting at was the apparent 'popularity' (or not) of the 52 Inf Bde flash that 40 had to wear. It may sound churlish or chad but esprit de corps is a big thing in the Corps.

Just so the point is missed accurately though... as far as I know (perhaps bigdog can correct me if I'm wrong) 'wings' can't really be described as an army badge - its a tri-service thing and you'll know that the RAF play at least a part in the process as well!

Similarly the WW2 commandos were under the command of Combined Operations Command which was not an army organisation - and in fact you'll probably find that the army hierarchy were pretty hostile to it. If it wasn't for Mountbatten and Churchill (amongst others) it would have been strangled at birth by the 'army'.

Wholley, I don't think that party politics has anything to do with it and "cap badges" do concern me but, whilst I understand if they do not concern you, this is a Royal Marines discussion topic. There have always been rumblings about the Corps being binned - particularly under Thatcher's government before 3 Cdo Bde saved her bacon.

Fair shout that Para battalions formed part of 3 Cdo Bde in the Falklands but they have a similar selection and basic training process and esprit. In addition the fledgling Parachute Regiment was bolstered when much of No.5 (Army) Commando were drafted into it after the war. They share a similar commando heritage.

My point is that there seem to be plans afoot to change the nature of 3 Cdo Bde and possibly the Royal Marines. At the end of the day if 6 or 8 weeks (whatever it is) training is as good as 32 then why bother? You learn to be a bootneck/commando from day one and you stop learning the day you leave the Corps.

Sarastro, you make some reasoned points above but whilst we've had attached ranks for specific roles for yonks, this looks like something qualitatively different. A whole battalion being squeezed onto a 'commando' course sounds iffy to me. You're just wrong in believing that 30/32 weeks of thrashing stands you in better shape for the tests than 8 weeks of thrashing. The tests were a hoop to jump through - we did far more arduous (often non-curricular) things than the tests in training.

Again, I mean no offence to the Rifles or any other perce unit - I just don't like rebranding and things being called something they're not. Good luck to 1 Rifles and their 'badge' but if you're going to be a bear... be a grizzly

[Sarastro]

At the end of the day if 6 or 8 weeks (whatever it is) training is as good as 32 then why bother? You learn to be a bootneck/commando from day one and you stop learning the day you leave the Corps.

Sarastro, you make some reasoned points above but whilst we've had attached ranks for specific roles for yonks, this looks like something qualitatively different. A whole battalion being squeezed onto a 'commando' course sounds iffy to me. You're just wrong in believing that 30/32 weeks of thrashing stands you in better shape for the tests than 8 weeks of thrashing. The tests were a hoop to jump through - we did far more arduous (often non-curricular) things than the tests in training.

Grit teeth. It's not just 8 weeks of training, unless you apparently count infantry training in the British Army as being worth nothing, which is the undercurrent that pisses me off about these discussions. Every unit's basic training is always more difficult, longer & tougher than every other unit to listen to them - if I really wanted to, I could point at a year of Sandhurst + 6 months regimental role training and say this made Army officers 50% better than RM officers, but then that would mean Westpoint graduates are 100% better than Army officers & 200% better than RM. It's clearly toss.

More to the point, who has ever looked at a Marine or Tom straight out of CTC or Depot and thought: ah, there goes the finest fighting man in the world! Bollocks. Basic training is just that - I'd take your average line infantryman with a tour behind him over your average Marine or Para straight out of basic any day, because I've seen some serious mongs pass out into Para Reg, and I'm sure some pass out into Royal too. Harping on about the slight differences in basic training as if all the stuff after basic never happens is fairly ridiculous. If you want to boast about something for regimental pride, boast about the fact your lot get deployed twice as much as everyone else & have serious combat experience!

So I still hold that if 1 Rifles pass the test, they deserve to be called, not bootnecks or Royal Marines, but Army Commandos - an Army volunteer force from infantry units who have to meet higher standards & receive specialist training. And as you note with the point about heritage, that isn't rebranding, but a return to what they used to be

[Sully]

You seem to be getting a bit irate about this and you show a lack of respect and courtesy - I may not be as clever as you but I would imagine that I have more military experience which includes working with (and training) men from other arms and units so save your speculations about military training for somebody else. I don't recall "harping" or "boasting" about anything. I think my point is clear - commando training starts on day one and an 8 week course might be alright for an attached gunner or engineer but not for a grav.

Stacks of bootnecks (old and current) used to post on this site but now it seems to be the land of the blind where sometimes not even the one eyed man is king - it's the man who says he has one eye

Fair enough maybe but when ignorance is accompanied by arrogance then that's a bit of a drag.

Sullyout