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Camp lympstone

General discussions on joining & training in the Royal Marines.
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Starwon
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#46 Post by Starwon » Thu 03 May, 2007 3:51 pm

12k is more than im on now

but if you upped the money it might not attract the right type of people

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Brian-
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#47 Post by Brian- » Thu 03 May, 2007 4:29 pm

druadan wrote:Having said that, one mate has landed a job at SIS starting on £24k straight out of uni, gen dit, I didn't believe him til he showed me all the paperwork! Lucky barsteward :roll:
Not quite the best secret agent around then... :lol:

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ashley
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#48 Post by ashley » Thu 03 May, 2007 4:50 pm

Regarding the mention of the Corp adapting, well there's clear proof of it in this month's G&L. In the CTC section, near the end of it there's a few paragraph's written by a troop commander of a troop in training. It mentions how FX1&2 have been modified to include more (something like double) the scenario's and different variations thereof, I assume based on feedback from what is occuring in current theatres.

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#49 Post by druadan » Thu 03 May, 2007 6:14 pm

Not quite the best secret agent around then...
:D
Nah, it wasn't proper sneaky beaky stuff, can't remember the actual job title but something electronicky...his degree's in fancy satellite comms and all that sort of stuff. Still, nice to say you work for MI6 (or is it 5?!)...not got quite the same ring as 'Bootneck' still tho has it :wink:

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#50 Post by AJtothemax » Thu 03 May, 2007 6:50 pm

You cant just use 'you dont join up for the money' as an excuse - thats probably why this poxy government pays our forces shite money (unless you're and officer). Look at firemen, that get alot more money when they start, 17k+. As its been said, some blokes have familes to provide for as well as themselves, you have to think about your future lads, please dont forget that.

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#51 Post by ali_hire » Thu 03 May, 2007 6:51 pm

druadan wrote:a lot of people can't afford to live on the <£12k they pay recruits. I certainly got into a fair amount of debt during training, and my commitments were minuscule (small loan and running bikes) - although a lot of that due to beer :wink: - compared to someone with a wife and two kids to support. Certainly if you're looking at recruiting more mature blokes with some responisibilities in life an increase in wage would help. I think it may increase more younger lads as well, you look at something and I say "I wouldn't put myself through that for £12k," but then they might for £20k.
I quite agree.

There's no reason why the starting wage should be so low. Especially when you consider that a copper in training gets £20k! And you don't need any more qualifications than you do to join the forces.

To be honest though it hasn't put me off, I'll be taking over a 50% pay drop to join and I still have a mortgage to pay and other outgoings. Good job the mrs gets paid well or I'd not be able to join.
Aways look on the bright side of life.

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#52 Post by AJtothemax » Thu 03 May, 2007 6:54 pm

ali_hire wrote:
druadan wrote:a lot of people can't afford to live on the <£12k they pay recruits. I certainly got into a fair amount of debt during training, and my commitments were minuscule (small loan and running bikes) - although a lot of that due to beer :wink: - compared to someone with a wife and two kids to support. Certainly if you're looking at recruiting more mature blokes with some responisibilities in life an increase in wage would help. I think it may increase more younger lads as well, you look at something and I say "I wouldn't put myself through that for £12k," but then they might for £20k.
I quite agree.

There's no reason why the starting wage should be so low. Especially when you consider that a copper in training gets £20k! And you don't need any more qualifications than you do to join the forces.

To be honest though it hasn't put me off, I'll be taking over a 50% pay drop to join and I still have a mortgage to pay and other outgoings. Good job the mrs gets paid well or I'd not be able to join.
Well said Ali, again, my point exactly - you have to think about your future, money has to be apart of it whether you want to think about it or not, everything is money orientated, everyone knows this.

Thats not to say its taking the light away from the real reason to join, again - firemen and the police get more, why cant the armed forces?
AJ

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#53 Post by druadan » Fri 04 May, 2007 3:01 pm

I'd hazard a guess tho that the general public see the fire and police forces as essential to the wellbeing of the country, whereas they're not quite so bothered about paying blokes to go and fight other people's wars. As I said I'm now on 19k after 3 years, but to get that I had to volunteer to do Drives as an SQ to skip two years worth of paybands, so for a grav to be on the same pay he'd've had to have done 5 years. And that's just to get to a policeman's starting salary.

It's also a common (and in my experience, correct) conception that a lot of people join the forces as a way out - people from the 'wrong side of the tracks,' people who are driven from home by domestic issues, people who have got nothing in life and simply see the forces as a way to a roof and food. I know you need no more qualifications to join the police/fire service, but (and I'm speculating here) I imagine you need to do far more in interviews etc to enter these professions, whereas to enter the forces in a non-specialist role really isn't hard at all. This, in my opinion, is why units such as the Marines, Paras, technical trades etc all have a reputation of attracting a higher calibre of people, because you actually have to work and WANT to be there. Still don't get paid any more tho :evil:

PS. Not having a go at any of the aforementioned groups, I know plenty of top quality lads who've come from poor backgrounds or whatever, simply using to illustrate the point.

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#54 Post by AJtothemax » Fri 04 May, 2007 5:09 pm

PAGreenwell wrote:Your average man in the street isn't going to be bothered about paying the military well, all he will think, if he thinks at all is "Military, war = bad" and "Firemen,Police,Hospitals = good"

So he is obviously going to be more partial to wanting more money for police etc and the government need to keep the people happy to win elections. You're never going to win an election on a defence pledge.

Thanks
Only because we're not being attacked left right and bloody centre.
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#55 Post by bigdog » Fri 04 May, 2007 6:15 pm

To be honest the wages are not that bad. They do seem low when you look at the kind of work but there are some basic facts. Firstly anyone can join the forces, you dont need any special skills and it is scarcity of skills that pushes wages up. Once you gain those specialist skills you do get more money, para pay, diving pay, etc. Isn't there commando pay? Secondly accomodation and things tends to be cheaper in the forces. If you add the accomodation costs as well as food, uniform and things like that its not such a bad deal. I think I have read that its worth five grand or something? That would put it at the same level as firemen who have to live at home.
I agree that the forces should get paid more, but its not that bad a deal. You have a lot more job security, a clear career path, health and dental care, potentially free driving lessons and the chance to do things like in service degrees. An open university degree costs thousands.
I dont believe that money is the reason for a recruitment problem. You cannot do it for purely financial reasons.

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#56 Post by Scottya5 » Fri 04 May, 2007 9:20 pm

From what I understand...

That green beret is respected and in some cases feared worldwide because of the 5h1t that the man wearing it has gone through. Royal Marines steryotypically are tough, hard, take no crap men that have earned the right to don the green beret because they did more.

Now, isnt there going to be a small problem that the world discovers that the Royal Marines Commando training is equal to that of the lolly pop ladies.

Just because the UK is going soft, it does mean our lads who have gone through hell have to loose face and possibly hard earned respect.

A load of cr@p if you ask me.

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#57 Post by euro_andrew » Fri 04 May, 2007 11:42 pm

Why the hell are you guys even talking about money? :-?

When I put in my application and through the whole process, I havent even thought about money. I dont even keep it in the back of my mind, It hasent affected my descision to do this at all. If money is a desciding factor to whether you apply to join then your not thinking straight.

Aslong as I have a Green beret on my head and food in my stomach, I will be bloody laughing.
Just Lie back and think of England.

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#58 Post by dwarfy » Sat 05 May, 2007 11:04 am

euro_andrew wrote:Why the hell are you guys even talking about money? :-?

When I put in my application and through the whole process, I havent even thought about money. I dont even keep it in the back of my mind, It hasent affected my descision to do this at all. If money is a desciding factor to whether you apply to join then your not thinking straight.

Aslong as I have a Green beret on my head and food in my stomach, I will be bloody laughing.
Because unfortunately Andy, money is very important to some people, not through greed or because they like money per se for material reasons, but because it is essential to them. Its all very good if your young and single and have no family to look after and the only person you have to spend money on is yourself, on wets when your on leave, and the only bill you pay is a mobile phone bill, but what if your a liitle older(or not for that matter) and you have a wife/girfriend and a young family. Regardless of how much they may want that Green Beret it is a very hard decision to take a considerable wage decrese at the expense of thier family, and i would think in some cases it just isnt possible. Say you've been in your job for 4 or 5 years and you've worked hard to be on 20k or so and that only just pays for the kids clothes and food and schooling and everything else that comes with it, it only just pays the water rates, the income tax, the food bills, the tv licencse, the phone bill, electricity bill,gas bill, some toys for the kids, books for the kids school etc etc, how would you then go about dropping to 12k to go through RT?

Its a very different scenario for some people who have others to look out for other than themselves, i met two lads at the RMR who chose that option due the fact they simply could not afford to join the regs and leave thier jobs because of thier families.

Andy, i like you didnt even look at the wage when i first went to join, but i had no commitments or anything like that, so it didnt matter much to me at all, it was the one question i got wrong at the interview (how much do you get a day during RT?), but having now aquired a fairly large debt it is certainly more of an issue, not a decinding one, but i am still only providing for myself so i have knowone else or others futures to think about just yet.

dwarfy

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#59 Post by degrees of passion » Sat 05 May, 2007 12:17 pm

If money is a desciding factor to whether you apply to join then your not thinking straight.
bit of a naive statement i think.True,money is not everything but lets face it,it is alot of things.As the previous post said,its not out of greed etc,but providing for yourself and your family.Im not a greedy person,i get by with what ive got,but im also realistic and i dont believe that you truly think that as long as you've got your green lid and a belly full of food your totally happy,what are you a caveman?

Far from wanting to be filthy rich,i still wouldnt mind a nice bit of money as a bonus,if anything,it can be useful in providing better equipment for me getting fit,gym membership,push bike etc

you cant tell me you dont think about getting some material goods for yourself,ipods,cars,stereo etc?
Let us therefore brace ourselves to our duties, and so bear ourselves that, if the British Empire and its Commonwealth last for a thousand years, men will still say, 'This was their finest hour'

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#60 Post by ADDiction » Sat 05 May, 2007 12:27 pm

Of course we all crave these overpriced possessions, but do we truly need them? They are nothing more than luxurious novelties, there necessity rapidly diminshes, but that green lid will remain a vital piece of who you are.

I live, sleep and breathe the notes. Hopefully one day I will figure out who and what, is really important.

We all want these expensive little gadgets mate, but if you can't afford them its tough sh*t, make do with what you've got. It's probably more then the next man.

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