BNP to make record gains in elections, warn MPs

[Daka]

I understand what you're (sonne) saying about freedom and speech, but I personally, don't think anyone should have the freedom to incite violence or hatred. Which, I feel, is what people like the BNP and The National Front do. They generate hate for certain types of people through media manipulation and an already tense atmosphere.

I will have to disagree with you on the "brainwashed" aspect. The National Front ARE racist, openly and aggressively. I don't know wether I'd use the term "Brainwashed" but certainly, if someone hates someone on account of their skin colour I'd at least use the word "ignorant"

[Wholley]

We in this country have a"Black Congressonal Caucus"
Which is overtly racist.
Rainbow Push,Again overtly racist.

A Black female congress woman can get away with hitting a white police officer.

Try that the other way round.
The "African American"Population in the US amounts to less than 20%.
I can't speak for others but your either an American or not.
No special treatment just because you percieve yourself to be a"Minority"
.Assimilate or Fark off.

Simple really.

[Mrs. Frank S.]

Aw jeeeeez Paul, again we agree.

I do hope you noticed though, that the Black Caucus (for the most part) did NOT defend her actions. She got herself stuck out in the open with no cover. I laughed my a$$ off.

I must admit that her "apology" was pretty pathetic and it was actually noted as such by a lot of the "liberal" blogs.

Julie

[Wholley]

Julie,
We are going to have to stop agreeing like this.
Him indoors will find out and now he's a mod he will get us both binned just for revenge

Just to get back on topic seems some of the"Red"States are now going to expect police officers to do the job of the INS.
Once I get through with this FBI BS I'm orf again to an Immigration Enforcement course.
Remind me again,Why do we have an INS?

Best to you both.

Paullie.

[Mrs. Frank S.]

Julie,
We are going to have to stop agreeing like this.
Him indoors will find out and now he's a mod he will get us both binned just for revenge

I don't think so. Remember, he's gotta live with me.

Remind me again,Why do we have an INS?Paullie.

As for the INS... I can't speak for them. I'm ignorant. Yeah, I know...hard to believe. It's the Border Patrol that I'm familiar with. Prior to 9/11, they were from two different branches of the governement (INS was Treasury dept. and BP was Judicial). Now I haven't a clue. Oh well, I guess I'll now go off and educate myself on the matter. Darnit, I already have a book to read. I'm sure I'll get even later.

Julie

[Sonne]

Right now i'm warmed up lets get into it. Many MANY of the black empowerment groups that work appaernylt in my name as a black man are OVERTLY racist. however there seems to be a understanding floating around the black community (and to a lesser extent the asian comminity (my father is indian my mother is jamaican origin, i see both sides)) that because we are members of the ethnic minorities no opinion we give can be racist. Complete and utter b+llocks i say. Groups supporting anglo-saxon / white rights are absolutely essential. I have theorised that the existance of political parties such as the BNP not only aid racial harmony but that they actively prevent race riots.

Without people speaking up for white rights then how long will it be before disenheartened caucasians rise up and react violently towards policies which are seen to be preferential to ethnic minorities? To remove the voice of the BNP is to court more racial tension. All races and religions need a group to stand up for their rights. Society brands those standing up for anglo-saxon rights as nazi's. This is very very wrong. Unless of course they are followers of Nazi political ideals. And let me be the one of the few black men to say this; Hitler was a great man. No i do not agree with the opression of the Jews and Slavic people but he did bring the German nation back fro mthe brink of destruction and make it a major world power once again. Had he not ordered the final solution and the Jewish Germans joined the military then it is quite possible we would be speaking German right now.

And Daka one more thing. People are onlt "illegal" if they are told they are not allowed to enter the country but do so anyway so your comment about not allowing illegals in needs refinement.

That was a fooking coherant post for a very very drunk Sonne. RANT OVER.

Sonne

[Wholley]

(INS was Treasury dept. and BP was Judicial).

Julie

Both were Justice at one time.
BP is now State controlled with a Federal oversight.
INS is now Dept.of Homeland Security(God help them)
They have gone from a useless bunch of politically motivated idjit's
to a bunch of REALLY useless politically motivated idjit's.

HERRUMMPH over.

[Daka]

I do understand that ethnic minorities CAN be hellishly racist. I have a Muslim friend and if I go out for a cup of tea with her I do notice some Asians giving me dirty looks.

What I'm saying is, in History, people have been traditionally bad to coloured people and the need to have someone to speak out for their rights was necessary...whether or not Blacks in the police force still get treated unfairly, I couldn't tell you. Some people are racist others aren't.
I think in an ideal world we'd all be treated fairly and there wouldn't be hate of any kind, but as it stands, that is a dream. Ideally there wouldn't be an Black Police Officers Association, an Asian Police Officers Association etc, there would be: "The Police Officers Association" where everyone regardless of race/sexuality/gender or whatever get the same treatment and the same support.

We shouldn't feel like there should be people standing up for White peoples rights, as I feel, we ALL have the same rights.

But that is just my idealistic viewpoint and I don't see it happening soon. There are always going to be idiots from both sides who think that skin colour is a pre-requisite for hate.

I do agree that the BNP has a voice, I don't agree with its stance, and I don't agree with the methods it utilises. It does it in a dangerously covert way. I don’t want to stop them having their say; I do however want to stop people voting for them. It is dangerous to support a party that breeds hate and aggression. While not found guilty, the BBC videos showed members of the BNP and its true colours its hate for anything not white. While I agree not all are like this, some are just disillusioned.

As for those standing up for Anglo-Saxon rights, again, I have no problem with it, if those rights don't infringe on other human rights then it isn’t a problem. The trouble is the BNP does talk about creating England as a purely white place and a great number of the BNP would prefer England to be white only. Again, many of the supporters of these groups DO hold Nazi ideals as shown in the BBC video.

I think I’m justified in saying I hate the BNP’s policies on race.

Hitler was not a great man. (and I choose my words carefully) Hitler was a piece of Shite. He was the cause of a great many deaths, and consequently, any domestic triumphs like getting Germany out of its financial depression are over shadowed.

I do not agree that if he hadn’t implemented the final solution Jews would be fighting for Germany because by the time they decided to kill the Jews they were already hated vehemently and treated like second class citizens. Remember the final solution was implemented after the start of the war, before that the Jews were rounded up, housed in ghettos, forced to wear stars etc. The Jews already hated Hitler and Hitler already hated the Jews.

If Hitler had not generated this hate for the Jews, if he had not utilised them as a scapegoat, chances were he would not have had the domestic success he achieved and perhaps the war would never have started.

[Daka]

Can i ask, as a mixed race man, what are your views on the BNP?

[Sonne]

Relating to your comments about Hitler you are wrong. In less than az decade Germany was brought back from the brink of destruction. When i talked about implementing the final solution i should have been clear that i meant had he not had prejudicial beliefs. The German war machine during the 1930-40's was the most formidible and progressive warfighting force since Alexander the Great. Germany had 300,000 Jews at the start of World War II. Of these we can assume only a 1/4 would be combat capable. an Additinal 75,000 men would have been disasterous for the Allies. Also if he had not hated the slavic people then no doubt he would not have broken his alliance with Russia, again proving disterous as that provides an easy striking point for Alaska and Canada.

Although my father is Indian i dont consider myself mixed race as such i think of myself as Black as it is the dominant culture in my household. My father is an Asian but his parents moved from Bombay to Jamaica. My stance towards the BNP is positive. It is not a racist organisation, however racists gravitate towards them becasue they are the closest thing thay have to a group representing their rights. It's like a few table spoons of engine oil contaminating a ships entire water supply.

People are afraid to think outside the box and instead are left tangled in politcal correct ideals. I've had encounters with people with racist ideals but never have i had a problem. Why? Becasue i believe Britain should be for the British and they recognise in me a English soul and a genuine love for the country. This is the root of conflict. As i said in another post, this isn't a multicultural society this is infact a multipolar society with nummerous power bases and ringfencing. People arrive in this country and move to areas they have claimed as theirs. Immediately they demand services from the government and feel that they are owed the best treatments and goods for next to no financial investment. Propaganda? No. First hand experience. I worked for the NHS in the Wheelchair service (and i am currently a student nurse). I witnessed appauling behaviour and attitudes towards fellow members of staff daily and blatent attempts to defraud the system. But the NHS aren't allowed to prosecute so many get away with it. But that's another topic. My point is that attitudes like that have caused racial tension and feelings of anger towards the new breed of immigrants who aren't from the commonwealth. I make specific reference to the commonwealth becasue those coming from countries once part of the empire integrate better with the British as over the generations cultural similarities developed and allowed us all to work alongside each other.

Sonne

[Wholley]

Daka/Sonne.
Onyers the pair of you.
You have revitalised this thread and I really enjoy reading your comments.
I may not agree with some of your points,But hey thats why this thread was started.
Now March away smartly in three's(Yus,Both of you)

OK Frank.You can step out of the shadows now

[Frank S.]

Political parties are Trojan horses. Open the gates at your own risk.
It can be tempting for voters to use them as a scare tactic, or to put it more mildly, to send a message to parties in power that the electorate are dissatisfied with them.
But as a tool of the electorate, they are not in fact particularly useful: they are just for rent.
Blaming immigrants for instance, for a country's woes is like missing the forest for the trees. Should either the BNP or any other party with a similar platform come to power, you would hear a lot about change, yet strangely see extremely little of it.

It is a con game, after all.

This was my take two years ago, and essentially it hasn't changed. Agree with Paul on our new contributors's reasoned debate, good show, Sonna and Daka.
The other side of the coin when discussing rights is that of responsibilities, or duties if you will. Have recent developments in France revived the debate in the UK, and if so, what seems to be the prevalent attitude?
On a somewhat related note, the following is interesting reading and only 6 pages long:
http://www.esisc.org/The%20association% ... others.pdf

[Daka]

Well, in my experience it is that the vast amount of BNP supporters i have met are racist in every sense of the word, and would be much happier if england was white only...but that is my experience.

As for immigrants immidiately looking to the government for help, again, in my experience the vast amount of immigrants move straight into hard, demanding jobs and in no way want to leach off the government. Of course there will be some, but there are those people in every society.

I think it is unfair for cultures to be stereotyped as many of the Muslims i've met have (in my mind) assimilated. They wear clothes from top shop, support football teams, flirt outrageously with me (and no matter how good looking i am their of old wouldn't allow it). But they still celebrate ede and pray etc which i dont think there is anything wrong with.

I would like to add that I've enjoyed this a lot, but I'm done. My goal isnt to change peoples mind. You seem like a smart guy, an i look foward to talkin to you again, take it easy

[Daka]

Daka/Sonne.
Onyers the pair of you.
You have revitalised this thread and I really enjoy reading your comments.
I may not agree with some of your points,But hey thats why this thread was started.
Now March away smartly in three's(Yus,Both of you)

OK Frank.You can step out of the shadows now

onyers?

political discussions always fun, aslong as it stays sensible, an i think we did.

oh and Frank S. That pdf file looks interestin, short of time at the mo, but ill definately read it an let ya know.

An its off to the pub with me (well, in an hour after i've done my hair)

[Frank S.]

Well, in my experience it is that the vast amount of BNP supporters i have met are racist in every sense of the word, and would be much happier if england was white only...but that is my experience.

Yes... I have had similar experience with the Front National across the channel. As to changing minds, remember, the only people who can't change their mind are those who have none to change.
Look, my sense on why those issues raise their head occasionally is that they help conceal some other major move by governments: the old rope-a-dope.
It helps weaken any possibility of consensus prior to say, oh, yet another invasion, for instance... While few people are looking.