I've always known what the State Opening of Parliament is about outlining the Governments aim over the next session of Parliament
BUT
having watched this live on TV this morning I have to ask if all of this Pomp and Pageantry is really necessary in this day and age. There are people in wigs and elaborate gold embroidered cloaks, people wearing stockings and gaiters and all sorts of maces, staff rods and medals and awards that would grace any old buffers trophy shop.
The cost of all of this must be humongous, so is it not time for the Queen to sit in Buck House in front of a TV camera to outline the agenda rather than go through all of this? Having said all of this there still is no other country on earth that can put on such a spectacle, but is it all necessary?
Not so much an opinion than a 'feeling', understand, but as an outsider looking in I'd say yes it is necessary.
All this pomp, pageantry and state protocol to me is the opposite of barbarism we've witnessed over and over this past century.
For the time being anyway, I think it is important as the other historic side of a coin which has events like Oradour on it.
In a sense, whether real or imagined, it offers something to aspire to and respect. Maybe not so much with awe as with a kind of fondness and hope.
Hope that made sense.
Spannerman do you believe in traditions or not, these ceremonies are a link from the past to remind people if they can think at all the cost some people paid to have a free Parliament.
Does the tradition go back beyond 1546, if it does then should we still be beheading prisoners in the Bloody Tower or cutting off a Queens head because she cannot produce a male heir to the throne and calling a treasonable act calling it adultery? Of course not, these traditions of the State Opening of Parliament go back nearly 500 years and it is all recorded on film archive and held by different heraldic trusts, that is our history and heritage and long may it survive in archaical form.
I know it was peeing down with rain in London today but how many of the great British public were on the streets waving at the Queen, almost as many that watched the speeding motorcade of President Bush last week, a very sparse turn-out.
I have never watched this ceremony in full before and I am glad I watched it as it gave me an insight into all the time wasting, money grabbing, well heeled people employed by 'the establishment' for little in return, if this brought money to the economy from overseas visitations it failed, if the money saved helped war widows or pensioners who have fought and died for their country then I would say yes lets abolish the ceremony and have QEII make her statement live from the Palace of Buckingham rather than Westminster.
Spannerman wrote: if this brought money to the economy from overseas visitations it failed
Spanner, I do not mean to cherry-pick your argument, but the point about revenue I think is not part of the equation.
I say this with hopefully all possible consideration and respect, as I am not a British subject and therefore pay no taxes there.
Everyone considers some things to be beyond economic considerations, and it seems to me that this is one of those things. Its relevance might be questioned. I am ignorant of that. But it is a reminder of the splendor of the British monarchy, if not as much in Great Britain, hopefully elsewhere. And it matters to me.
As you all know I am from the South. My military service has caused me to move about quite a bit. As a result of moving every three or four years my children have not grown up as I did, soaking up a culture that cannot be taught.
The other day I noticed that my oldest son, John sounded not at all like a Southron. In fact, he was trying to talk like me and sounded like he was a bad actor in a movie making fun of people like me. I will teach him his history and the history of our clan, but he will not live it as I did. I will teach him to hunt and fish, but not where I was taught. He will not roam the woods and swamps and smell a freshly turned field or sit on a hot august porch and listen to the stories the old tell and smell the freshly shelled peas and the tobacco juice his uncles spit as they whittle. He will grow up never hearing the bay of coon hounds on a cool October night sitting in front of a fire drinking an R.C. cola while the men sip moonshine and Jim Beam. He will not eat himself into a stupor on stolen watermelon and bar-b-que and fried chicken. He will never sit every Sunday in a little country church and hear men preach who aren't afraid to speak the truth secure in the knowledge that in thier world God is still on His throne. He will never see anyone but me stand and put his hand over his heart when Dixie is played. He won't really understand what Is meant by damnyankee - one word. He will never really understand why football is more than a game. He won't ever say Ma'am or Ya'll or Yessir or nosir' the way it is supposed to be said and for the same reasons I use those words.
Always, there will be some thing between us that is not quite as it should be. He will be my son, but he will not be southern. Money cannot buy Southerness. Money cannot teach pride in who and what you are and where you come from and why you are the way you are. I have only myslef to blame for this. Only too late have I realized that doing things the way they have been done for generations bonds one generation to the next in ways that history books and schools and one hour television programs never can. Hold on to your traditions. support every silly, pompous, annoying and seemingly useless ones you have. If you do not, if you allow cynicism to creep in and a love of the modern to dictate who you are, you will wake up one morning and not recognize your own children. They and your nation, your people, will have become one part of the vast, useless, multicultural world of nothing and no one in particular. Just my Humble and slightly Jim Beam influenced opinion.
Yep I know that's right you Mississippi affirmative action lover(Just kidding).
Our boys may not grow up in Gods country, but the Southern way can be instilled. Our problems are our wives, they think our teachings of Southern tradition is equal to extremism. But hell or high water our son's will be okay and have a respect of our people. Our boys are still young Gen. Forrest, soon as they can shoulder the bolt action and get away from Mama's shopping adventures they will be okay. My dad said I was turning into a Yankee faggot until he got me out fishing, hunting, shooting and just being around the men in general. The truth though is, without tradition you have nothing to identify with or to. What would the military be without ceremony?
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
I must insist that there is something about being there.
Maybe we should plan a day out with our boys, shooting stop signs, eating moon pies and drinking R.C. cola, playing Jerry Clower and Roy D. Mercer C.D.s , Spitting tobacco, whittling, find a body of water and pretend we're noodling(do they have catfish here?), making them walk around barefooted on hot asphalt, something just to get them away from the coupon clipping, home shopping network addicts we married.
Yeah, we should. Our problem is we put so much time into being soldiers(Hours upon hours) our wives got all wise and decided "Hey I don't want my son becoming a dirty old redneck soldier." so they started that Mama's boy junk on them. And you ain't kidding about shopping addicts. Man that is all my wife does. She's got my son wrapped, cause ever time she goes to the store she gets him something see. The boy won't know how to tie a line, but he'll damn well know how to stack coupons. That is all it is, our wives are damn afraid our sons will grow up to be us. Scares me a little too, but boys got to be a man sometime, I won't always be here. It's society too, they eat drink and sleep in a liberal dominated world. In 20 years they'll be turning us in to Homeland Security for making fun of the President if we don't get them out of the isles of Wal-Mart on saturdays. My boy is just two, but I got a 22 lr. I learned to shoot on when I was just 8 or 9, come borrow it anytime, or we could all go out shooting. You are the closest thing my boys got to an uncle out here. Yeah we should. No they don't have any good fish here though, most the nuke testing in Nevada has contaminated our fish actually, but we got some good elk and birds. High altitude lakes have lots of mercury and mining chemical run off in them. That is why I'll be glad to get out of this damn state.
Yeah traditions are hard to keep in the abscence of family.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
I have sympathies with both the Republican movement and the Monarchy in the UK, the latter to me still has a slight edge despite me being an out and out Royalist whilst serving in the Armed Forces for the UK, recent years my views have changed considerably.
I still find the Royal Family and its Estates is good value for money, the income generated against its expenditure, the pleasure it gives many people on various State Occasions, I am merely pointing out that for the first time yesterday I witnessed the State Opening of Parliament on TV, how many others watched it in its entirety? I just felt that all of this pomp was totally unnecessary, for the first time in 450 years people weren't walking backwards in front of the Queen, the Lord Chancellor being the exception.
There is an informative website on the Royals expenditure with links, worth reading:
I'm just saying I think it not a coincidence that on every continent drastic measures and changes are takiking place or being demanded. As a kid and even as an NCO in the Army I was anti-establishment, but in the back of my mind I never wanted the establishment to actually go away. If it did then what would I have to complain about? I guess I'm saying I disagree with things our leaders do, but I'd never call for the desolve of our Constitution as a cure. If looked at spatially at the current global changes things are looking more and more oppressive, and countries are changing drastically. The only thing we need to change in America is the liberal lawyers assault on the Constitution and the import of 4 million 3rd worlders a year. Looking at you guys from the outside, you might want to keep the Queen, shut off immigration for awhile, militarize and take back what is yours, especially South Africa. You need a better revenue base so you aren't taxed to death. Your country established South Africa as a colony before any Africans lived their really. Then once you made it livable the Africans came looking for work, and now they run the place and have run it into the ground. Your parliment from our news reels look like a smaller version of our congress. Our congress needs term limits and the treasonous members need a stiff prison sentence, same for you. I just see monarchs and aristocrats as the blood leaders of the people. And wrongly portrait as evil people, now we have CEO's, special interrest politicians and lawyers hostile to our Constitution who are no relation to us tearing us apart. Your royals may not have any power, but their presence is a silent reminder of opposition and a rally point for your people should things get so bad.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
[quote="Spannerman]
having watched this live on TV this morning I have to ask if all of this Pomp and Pageantry is really necessary in this day and age. There are people in wigs and elaborate gold embroidered cloaks, people wearing stockings and gaiters and all sorts of maces, staff rods and medals and awards that would grace any old buffers trophy shop.
[/quote]
Spans
If we get rid of it what have we (the English/British) got left in way of tradition, custom and heritage? The only thing I can think of is Morris Dancers and the occasional thing, like 'worm catching', wassailing and grunging. All local, rather than national, customs.
And for pageantry, such as the Trooping of the Colour, there's no other country that can come close.
So, is it necessary? As usual, it all depends on your point of view. Is it expensive? Yes. But many of us would think it's worth every penny.
I'm not suggesting all of our UK pomp should be got rid of, I am merely suggesting the State Opening of Parliament, it is not for the general public to see it (except on TV), it is there for the Peers and MP's in both the Upper and Lower Houses of Parliament.
I'm all for Royal marriages in Westminster Abbey and St Pauls, Trooping of the Colour, Royal funeral processions and the ilk. May I respectfully request that in November 2004 the video recorder is set if you cannot watch this 'spectacle' live on TV, I will try and remind those that may be interested in 51 weeks time. I found the whole thing completely unnecessary.
I was amused by the fact that the Queen, and all the other attending dignitaries, went through this elaborate, time honoured, traditional, historical, (expensive?) process so that Her Majesty could announce to the nation that Tony Blair wanted to bring us all into the 21st Century with his brand new ideas!
One reporter stated that he had recently covered the event of a guy passing the longest tape worm ever seen, and the expression on the guys face was exactly the same as that of the Queen at the State Opening! (Especially the bit about same sex marriages I should think!)
Aye, Derek
[img]http://avanimation.avsupport.com/gif/Snoopy.gif[/img] So far.....so good........but watch your six!
Spannerman wrote: I found the whole thing completely unnecessary.
That's the nature of the beast. All tradition is unnecessary. e.g. In Spain in Seville, they all get dressed up to the nines and parade about all day in their finery to celebrate being Sevillianos. In one town, they chuck tons of tomatoes at each other. In another there's a bit procession and a full day of celebration with the first harvesting of the grape. In Italy, villages compete to build the biggest pyramid of men; in another town they have horse races against each other.
All of it completely unnecessary unless, of course, people believe it gives them a sense of national, or local, identity [or whatever you want to call it]
