I know that the size of the UK military is shrinking as is the defence budget. What is it about Labour that keeps cutting the military while deploying it more often? That being said, you in the UK still have a lot to be thankful for when compared to Canada, though. I came up with these numbers, indexed to the Candian/UK population differences.
This is what the British Army would look like if it were run the way the Canadian Government has run our military since the early 1960's:
Strength of the Army: 38,000
Main battle tanks: 154 Leopard 1's
DEFENCE Budget: 10.6 billion pounds
Regular Infantry Battalions: 18
Still, all is not lost here-yet. For probably the first time in Canadian history, a political party has made increasing the size of our military a top priority. Should the newly-created Conservative Party take power, likely around 2008 at the earliest, the defence budget will increase by nearly 100%.
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Defence budget and manning levels
Defence budget and manning levels
"Poor Ike, it won't be a bit like the Army. He'll find it very frustrating. He'll sit here and he'll say, 'Do this! Do that!' And nothing will happen."
Harry Truman
Harry Truman
Defence budget and manning levels
I forgot to mention, there's so few regular troops in the Canadian army that reservists do the changing of the guard on Parliament Hill-can you imagine the TA at Buckingham Palace or Trooping the Colour?
No, not the Tories anymore. The Tories (aka PC, or Progressive Conservatives) will be merging with the Canadian Alliance Party to become the Conservative Party of Canada. The PC's are finished, a merger with the right wing is their only hope. Lady Thatcher said everything about the PC's: "there's too much emphasis on the adjective rather than the noun"
Imagine the UK Tories merging with the British National Party in order to defeat Labour. The Canadian Liberal Left will keep winning majority governments (though not a majority of the vote) unless the right combines. Canada's destined to be in the dark ages for a long time to come, but there is hope.
No, not the Tories anymore. The Tories (aka PC, or Progressive Conservatives) will be merging with the Canadian Alliance Party to become the Conservative Party of Canada. The PC's are finished, a merger with the right wing is their only hope. Lady Thatcher said everything about the PC's: "there's too much emphasis on the adjective rather than the noun"
Imagine the UK Tories merging with the British National Party in order to defeat Labour. The Canadian Liberal Left will keep winning majority governments (though not a majority of the vote) unless the right combines. Canada's destined to be in the dark ages for a long time to come, but there is hope.
"Poor Ike, it won't be a bit like the Army. He'll find it very frustrating. He'll sit here and he'll say, 'Do this! Do that!' And nothing will happen."
Harry Truman
Harry Truman
Well
Maybe then they would do something about the Free Loaders (asylum seekers)
just kidding who are the new Conservative you are talking about what are there policies compared to the Old Conservatives?
just kidding who are the new Conservative you are talking about what are there policies compared to the Old Conservatives?
Dis i spell that right?
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Frank S.
- Guest
Re: Defence budget and manning levels
Believe it when you see it.df2inaus wrote: Should the newly-created Conservative Party take power, likely around 2008 at the earliest, the defence budget will increase by nearly 100%.
Haha thats still considerably better than Canadas current standingStrength of the Army: 38,000
Main battle tanks: 154 Leopard 1's
DEFENCE Budget: 10.6 billion pounds
Regular Infantry Battalions: 18
Strength of the Army: 20,000
Main battle tanks: 121 Leopards 1's
DEFENCE Budget: 12 billion CAD (About 5.12 billion pounds)
Regular Infantry Battalions: 9 x 850
Its hard to belive that since I joined the Canadian army, the strength of the Combined Armed Forces has dropped to 60,000 regular force from 100,000. Then they desperately increase the numbers though recruiting, however they don't increase the budget for individual units. Some reserve units don't even get blank rounds for excersizes on the West Coast. Well... at least they are very good at recce patrols as thats all they can do with such a lack of funding.
If a man has nothing he is willing to die for then he isn't fit to live.
Defence budget and manning levels
At least the Canadian army reservists don't need to worry about ND's!
"Poor Ike, it won't be a bit like the Army. He'll find it very frustrating. He'll sit here and he'll say, 'Do this! Do that!' And nothing will happen."
Harry Truman
Harry Truman
df2/Ben
But what are the defined roles for the Canadian Army? At least the Canadian government isn't stupid enough to get involved in anachronistic neo-imperialist ventures like ours!
We've got a much bigger army than Canada but they're stretched so thin, it's a joke. Would I join today if I had the chance? Don't think so.
On a similar note I'm absolutely baffled why we're still maintaining our nuclear missiles subs. Even during the Cold War I couldn't believe our contribution to the nuclear deterrent was even considered by the Russians. What did it add to the whole scenario? The US and Russia had (have) more than enough weapons to destroy the planet without (what Thatcher herself in 1984 called) our 'tiny, tiny number of nuclear weapons.' Presumably she meant tiny in comparison with the US/USSR.
But what are the defined roles for the Canadian Army? At least the Canadian government isn't stupid enough to get involved in anachronistic neo-imperialist ventures like ours!
We've got a much bigger army than Canada but they're stretched so thin, it's a joke. Would I join today if I had the chance? Don't think so.
On a similar note I'm absolutely baffled why we're still maintaining our nuclear missiles subs. Even during the Cold War I couldn't believe our contribution to the nuclear deterrent was even considered by the Russians. What did it add to the whole scenario? The US and Russia had (have) more than enough weapons to destroy the planet without (what Thatcher herself in 1984 called) our 'tiny, tiny number of nuclear weapons.' Presumably she meant tiny in comparison with the US/USSR.
they could destroy the world a hundred times over, and the need for more nuclear weapons is?!?!The US and Russia had (have) more than enough weapons to destroy the planet without (what Thatcher herself in 1984 called) our 'tiny, tiny number of nuclear weapons.' Presumably she meant tiny in comparison with the US/USSR.
Sisyphus i agree with your point entirely, t'was a WOMBAT (waste of money, brains and time)
defence budget and manning levels in Canada
Sisyphus,
I was against the war simply because I did not believe toppling Saddam was worth the life of a single British or American soldier. But our PM doesn't care about the lives of our troops, he just watches polls. All he had to say was a simple "no" to Bush but instead threw public hissy fits and would not discipline MP's who publically insulted a country that purchases 85 percent of all exports and keeps us alive. Chretien knows that by being anti American at any price, his party will win elections.
Don't mistake Canada's non-participation in Iraq for doing it out of conscience-our PM hides behind the UN dogma so that he's never at risk of making controversial decisions.But what are the defined roles for the Canadian Army?
This is Ben's territory so take my response w/ a pinch of salt. As far as I know, there is no official role since Cdn troops left Germany. I don't believe one Cdn unit is currently tasked for the NATO ARRC. Cdn troops are committed to as many UN missions (one observer here, 2 there) as possible so that our PM can get himself a cushy job there one day and so that he can pretend we haven't dropped off the face of the Earth. Canada's big deployments at the mo. are ISAF and IFOR.
Must admit I smile a bit when the UK Armed Forces say they're overstretched. It certainly is true and I admire to no end the audacity of people like Adm Boyce who tell it to the politicians straight and on national TV!We've got a much bigger army than Canada but they're stretched so thin, it's a joke. Would I join today if I had the chance? Don't think so.
However, it's several times worse here. First of all, our brass since the mid 60's have dutifully carried out whatever hard left Ottawa tells them and permitted the CF to lose size and capability so that they get promoted and are assured jobs at the MOD after retirement.
You will read Canada has a reg force of about 60,000 but thats all three services combined. The average Cdn civvy has been deluded for years by the liberal media that 60,000 troops are available at any given time and thus don't question the manpower crisis. Many Canadians are knee-jerk anti-American in their outlook and are actually quite pleased about our tiny military because it irritates the Americans. We spend the lowest pct of GDP on defence in NATO besides Luxembourg, which tiny Slovenia just blasted as "immoral (On Track Magazine)."
In Canada, we've had recruiting freezes, wage freezes, non-stop deployments, and among other things, a proposal that married quarters' rents be jacked up to civvy prices to accelerate the shrinkage of the military by one-third in 10 years. According to Esprit de Corps magazine, it is taking Cdn army recruits up to 16 months from joining up to completing basic. We didn't even have DPM battledress until 2002 and I don't think the whole army has it yet-probably just using up the old olive greens at the mo.
At least the Canadian government isn't stupid enough to get involved in anachronistic neo-imperialist ventures like ours!
I was against the war simply because I did not believe toppling Saddam was worth the life of a single British or American soldier. But our PM doesn't care about the lives of our troops, he just watches polls. All he had to say was a simple "no" to Bush but instead threw public hissy fits and would not discipline MP's who publically insulted a country that purchases 85 percent of all exports and keeps us alive. Chretien knows that by being anti American at any price, his party will win elections.
"Poor Ike, it won't be a bit like the Army. He'll find it very frustrating. He'll sit here and he'll say, 'Do this! Do that!' And nothing will happen."
Harry Truman
Harry Truman
Defence budget and manning levels
Tab,
Historically, a party of the private sector and entrepreneurs is returned to power after a couple of terms (Republicans 2000, Conservatives 1979 etc....), but as is the case in Britain, the Conservative party of Canada is unlikely to be elected in 2004, and both our militaries will continue to suffer.
The Canadian military will likely be disbanded by 2015 unless the Conservatives are elected.
It is interesting to not that the only right-wing seat in the 2000 federal election in the Province of Ontario went to the riding containing Camp Petawawa, the country's largest (am I correct Benchug?) army base. The Liberal party will continue to shift large units to their ridings and gerrymander electoral boundaries until the military vote is watered down completely.
If our career servicemen and women make the right choice and emigrate from Canada, expect a large influx of Canadians into the UK and Australian armed forces in the years to come.
Well said. Like Labour in Britian, Canada has a political party of government, the Liberals. Their whole raison d'etre is to expand the public sector by the thousands, and you're guaranteed to be returned to power.HM Forces are just over 100,000 personel and falling or should I say being slashed. The civil service has increased by 350,000 since the Labour party has come to power. Who said the pen was mightier than the sword.
Historically, a party of the private sector and entrepreneurs is returned to power after a couple of terms (Republicans 2000, Conservatives 1979 etc....), but as is the case in Britain, the Conservative party of Canada is unlikely to be elected in 2004, and both our militaries will continue to suffer.
The Canadian military will likely be disbanded by 2015 unless the Conservatives are elected.
It is interesting to not that the only right-wing seat in the 2000 federal election in the Province of Ontario went to the riding containing Camp Petawawa, the country's largest (am I correct Benchug?) army base. The Liberal party will continue to shift large units to their ridings and gerrymander electoral boundaries until the military vote is watered down completely.
If our career servicemen and women make the right choice and emigrate from Canada, expect a large influx of Canadians into the UK and Australian armed forces in the years to come.
"Poor Ike, it won't be a bit like the Army. He'll find it very frustrating. He'll sit here and he'll say, 'Do this! Do that!' And nothing will happen."
Harry Truman
Harry Truman
