Deepcut Barracks

Spannerman · Post by **Spannerman** » Wed 22 Oct, 2003 7:56 pm

If this is the wrong forum board please transfer it to another board.

Today Tony Blair was asked at Prime Ministers Question Time in the UK Parliament whether he would meet with the families of the Deepcut Four where it is alleged 4 soldiers took their own lives in very mysterious circumstances over the past few years. This question has been passed over to The Defence Minister Adam Ingram, it is also hoped that Mr Ingram will answer along the same lines where with some 1800 other soldiers who have tragically lost their lives over the past 11/12 years in non combat situations including a higher than average number at Catterick Barracks as to whether a public inquiry should be held.

I am not sure whether this topic has been raised previously, if it has I apologise but I am sure some of the newer members may have some thoughts on this matter.

Do you think there has been a cover-up or if indeed anything untowards has ever happened in some of these camps?

RobT · Post by **RobT** » Wed 22 Oct, 2003 9:05 pm

Spannerman wrote: Do you think there has been a cover-up or if indeed anything untowards has ever happened in some of these camps?

Definately some fishy business going on.

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Wed 22 Oct, 2003 9:10 pm

In answer to your question Spannerman... YES...YES...and...YES
I find it heard to believe that someone can shoot them selves, with a rifle four times in an attempt at suicide
There is obviously a great amount that the Army is covering up and I believe that we will never get the truth, as long as there are High Ranking career officers and NCOs involved.

RobT · Post by **RobT** » Wed 22 Oct, 2003 9:14 pm

What gets me is though why anyone would of wanted to kill a fellow soldier. Starting fights is one thing but killing is just o.t.t.

Spannerman · Post by **Spannerman** » Wed 22 Oct, 2003 9:22 pm

It certainly seems odd to me that the UK Govt can immediately appoint a Law Lord (Hutton) to hold an immediate inquiry into the alleged suicide of Dr David Kelly and not the Deepcut Four and those incidents at other bases.

I feel that the longer the MoD fudge the issue the more that is hidden under the carpet.

I did hear one theory that there could be a lone gunman on the loose, that has served at these bases. Someone must have heard the shots though..........

Chaff · Post by **Chaff** » Thu 23 Oct, 2003 12:04 am

I don't think the families of these four young people will be looking for reassurance from Blair, which is what I would imagine he would would try to give should they meet, but an independant inquiry. They need to be able to put their minds at rest whatever the outcome - there can be no conclusion until they're convinced they know the truth.

Spannerman - that figure of 1800 - are these 'none natural' deaths? Amongst fit and healthy men and women they can't all be natural can they? It does seem shockingly high, although I don't know what the figures are pro rata for young people outside the military.

Spannerman · Post by **Spannerman** » Thu 23 Oct, 2003 8:02 am

Of the circa 1800 deaths several have been as a result of Road Traffic Acciidents (RTA) but many apparently cannot be explained and have been much higher than the industrial average for the same age group.

There are many sources available detailing some of these deaths, I have but picked one at random from a whole list on a search engine

http://www.guardian.co.uk/military/stor ... 85,00.html.

davo141 · Post by **davo141** » Thu 23 Oct, 2003 5:22 pm

There is something going on at these barracks, and proberly many others!

A family friend who is up at Loosiemouth (spelling?) in the RAF was saying how a lad got beaten up by a seargent because he found out he was 'gay', the lad involved did not press charges and left the service.....just wonder how many things like these go unreported through fear.

Cant help but feel something similar happened down at deepcut!

CHeers, dave

Smiler.wales · Post by **Smiler.wales** » Fri 24 Oct, 2003 9:02 am

Something fishy going on definitely , what I cant understand is the armys view that they were suicides, Im a corporal and after 5 minutes thinking this is some of the measures I woud have implemented now admittedly some may not be that practical but my point is if a Corporal in the TA can think of these ideas in five minutes surely these ideas + many others could have been implemented, Im pretty sure something was done at the time of each of them but its hard to see the Armys insistence of suicide

Imagine your the CO at Deepcut

First suicide comes in - your reaction my god thats terrible, lets inform the men of what support is available (samaritans etc) from the army , have an inquiry into how it happened and ensure it doesnt happen again.

2nd Suicide Comes in - Your reaction my god lets go through the same motions as the 1st time, start keeping a watchful eye on recruits who may seem to be struggling, lets also keep an eye out for bullying or other symptomatic causes, both happened when on guard hmmm ok lets ensure nobody is on guard on their own when in charge of a weapon. Lets call in the police just to be safe

3rd Suicide comes in - once is terrible, two is coincidence but 3 something is definitely going on here and we need to find out what as well as reiterating the motions of the 1st 2 incidents. Nobody is allowed alone with a weapon lets install CCTV cameras secretly at prime spots , All Officers and Senior NCOs to review their training manner and to report any cases of troubled recruits. Amoury to install stringent methods when issuing weapons and ammo any discrepancies to be reported. Police to be called again

4th Suicide - same as 3

max · Post by **max** » Fri 24 Oct, 2003 12:40 pm

Just assuming for a minute that they were suicides (which I must admit seems unlikely) what 'mental health' support is actually available in the forces? I imagine that it must be quite a difficult culture to ask for help in - do opportunities even exist for recruits to seek help? To be honest - even if they weren't suicide the question still applies as whoever did the killing obviously has problems as well... Is it a lack of proper support that let these lads down rather than just procedure?

Sorry if this is a really obvious question - it's just not something that is mentioned on the recruitment websites etc.

Spannerman · Post by **Spannerman** » Fri 24 Oct, 2003 10:15 pm

Too many doubts for me, and whilst there is one doubt and no suicide notes and a crucial bullet missing and Boards of Inquiry held in secret then there ought to be an Independent Inquiry. That way any doubts on either side can be concluded satisfactorily instead of this innuendo and rumour that abounds these four deaths.

Elmo · Post by **Elmo** » Sat 25 Oct, 2003 12:37 am

just had to say im relieved to read your views on this matter. theres another military website whos forums i look at and their views scare me somewhat. most of em believe that nothing suspect happened at all

and its just the reporters/ parents of victims who have spun this into something suspicious.

well thats me bitchin done

cheers

Mike · Post by **Mike** » Sat 25 Oct, 2003 12:48 am

Elmo...there you GO....stop reading other Military Forums and stay here
Further to the last threads...... How many prople decide to comit suicide and shoot themselves in the head and neck several times..........It all stinks
Aye

Kat =^..^= · Post by **Kat =^..^=** » Sun 26 Oct, 2003 2:56 am

Just my 2p's worth ... The Military spend Millions of £'s a year training men and women how to Kill, why would anyone think that you don't get over the odds of people joining the military that are mentally unbalanced?

My personal opinion is to make training harder, the RMC's have 30 weeks basic, if that doesn't break your average wanna be nothing will. Ok agreeded that it creates a different type of nutter (disclaimer: I have my own green lid that I earned fairly and squarely for being almost married to a Marine lol

) But I believe that a more rigorous training will bring out the mental instabilities in some people making it obvious that they are not in the right environs.

As for the suicides being above average this of course is going to be the case for the same reasons the trainee doctors hang themselves ... They can't take it anymore.

Back to Deepcut, I firmly believe that they were murdered, like the ones not only at Cattrick but Colcester too. I've already written to my MP demanding a public inquiry. I think people should do the same.

<<< Gets off/ Falls off Soap Box :drinking:

Spannerman · Post by **Spannerman** » Tue 28 Oct, 2003 9:04 am

The Royal British Legion has invited, for the first time, 18 people to march at the Remembrance Service Parade at the Cenotaph this year to honour those that have died in non combat situations.

As there are senior politicians present one assumes that these people will take notice of the depth of feeling entailed here and that a move to a Judicial Inquiry into some, if not all, of these deaths is somewhat nearer.

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