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Was almost robbed today
Was almost robbed today
I was doing my daily cycling, and as it was sunny, thought I would go a longer route, which included going through a town with a not so good reputation. Stopped at the local Spar, well almost fell off at the local Spar trying to climb the curve at not a sharp enough angle. Placed the bike against the side of a house and tryed to look for some money at the bottom of my bag. Mean while I notice a guy (maybe a year older then me) just standing around and occasionly looking at me and my nice shiney road bike. I got the feeling he wanted it and was waiting for me to disapper into the shop so I put my chain round it. He was still looking at it so I put it round the lamp post and he walked off. Now, I knew the gear chain had come off from when I had almost fell off the bike and this thought had only come to me after I came out of the shop (unfortunaly). If I didn't put the chain round and gone into the shop and waited for him to jump on the bike and very very fastly try and cycling away, would I get into trouble trying to kick his a**? I am thinking I am going to try my luck and cycle to the same place again at the same time and hope he comes wondering past and tries to grab it (unlikely). Then I am going to call the cops and slam him into the house the bike was leaning on and then basicly (hopfully) keep him on the floor long enough for the police to get there. So the question is again, will I get in trouble for beating him for trying to steal my bike.
Last edited by Stinky on Wed 02 May, 2007 11:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In all honestly I can't really see the police being too bothered about a guy trying to rob your bike. You'd have to hold him for quite a while aswell until the police came, leaving you open for his mates who are just waiting around the corner to come and give you a beating.
Next time I suggest you just cycle to the next shop.
And wouldn't it be classed as entrapment if you set him up?* not to sure on that one.
Next time I suggest you just cycle to the next shop.
And wouldn't it be classed as entrapment if you set him up?* not to sure on that one.
why bother?
As a betting person (:P) im wondering what you possibly have to gain vs what you have to lose. Im looking at bad odds. I wouldn't go looking for him. On the other hand, someone simply looking at my bike with the possible intention of stealing it wouldn't make me stay away from cycling there.
As a betting person (:P) im wondering what you possibly have to gain vs what you have to lose. Im looking at bad odds. I wouldn't go looking for him. On the other hand, someone simply looking at my bike with the possible intention of stealing it wouldn't make me stay away from cycling there.
You really had to be there to see it. I knew what that guy wanted. I am getting the feeling this was a bad post. Ill go to a police forum and annoy them with this question and see what they say, I wanted to know what I can do next time this happens maybe at a diffrent place etc. On a brighter note, who saw The Apprentice when paul (I think his name is) got fired and didn't walk in and that woman was so shocked 
.
Edit: I do a lot of cycling and I don't know if this will happen again. I haven't exactly got enough money to buy another bike and I don't want to just stand there shouting at him while he rides away with my bike. I neither want to do something and end up in the police station becaues of it. I am more looking at what I can and can't do.
.Edit: I do a lot of cycling and I don't know if this will happen again. I haven't exactly got enough money to buy another bike and I don't want to just stand there shouting at him while he rides away with my bike. I neither want to do something and end up in the police station becaues of it. I am more looking at what I can and can't do.
Last edited by Stinky on Thu 03 May, 2007 12:03 am, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Was almost robbed today
Stinky wrote:I am thinking I am going to try my luck and cycle to the same place again at the same time and hope he comes wondering past and tries to grab it (unlikely). Then I am going to call the cops and slam him into the house the bike was leaning on and then basicly (hopfully) keep him on the floor long enough for the police to get there. So the question is again, will I get in trouble for beating him for trying to steal my bike.
All fine up until there. If that's what you did, then yes, you might get in trouble with the police, because you're looking for a fight, aren't you?
First rule of fight club is walk away whenever possible. This has bugger all to do with being 'weak' or 'afraid' - in fact, in my line of work I have found myself in exactly the same position many times, except nobody has ever had a go because you can easily warn them off by the way you carry yourself: few months ago I even had a group of 3 teenagers approach me, clearly looking for trouble, at night & empty street, who decided to walk on past because I stood there staring right at them and swinging my (pretty heavy) bike lock.
Gear-chain coming off made that a unique situation. My suggestion would be that if it happens again...you're on a bike. You can go faster than he can, so get out of there.
Ok, will do next time. I also just found out on the police forum that I can make a citizens arrest (i'm a little behind) but unless I lasso them or voluntary make them take themself to the police station, I doubt I could so walking away (or in this cause, cycling away) is my only real option I guess.
I don't know who told you that on the forum stinky but its bollocks, you make a citizens arrest for someone trying to steal your bike you'll be the one in the shit.
Under PaCE that the advice would have been correct, you could make a citizens arrest - but only if he'd actually taken the bike; but under SOCaP citizens powers are greatly reduced. You can only arrest for indictable offences, thefts either way not indictable, and even if it were indictable your powers are very limited.
You've got to consider is a bike really worth risking getting beaten up, stabbed etc. and then even if you arrest him being arrested and sued for making an incorrect citizens arrest? These days best option is call the police and leave it at that.
The whole reason that citizens arrest powers were so greatly limited is to stop people putting themselves in that situation in the first place.
Under PaCE that the advice would have been correct, you could make a citizens arrest - but only if he'd actually taken the bike; but under SOCaP citizens powers are greatly reduced. You can only arrest for indictable offences, thefts either way not indictable, and even if it were indictable your powers are very limited.
You've got to consider is a bike really worth risking getting beaten up, stabbed etc. and then even if you arrest him being arrested and sued for making an incorrect citizens arrest? These days best option is call the police and leave it at that.
The whole reason that citizens arrest powers were so greatly limited is to stop people putting themselves in that situation in the first place.
http://www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2005/20050015.htm24A Arrest without warrant: other persons
(1) A person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant-
(a) anyone who is in the act of committing an indictable offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be committing an indictable offence.
(2) Where an indictable offence has been committed, a person other than a constable may arrest without a warrant-
(a) anyone who is guilty of the offence;
(b) anyone whom he has reasonable grounds for suspecting to be guilty of it.
(3) But the power of summary arrest conferred by subsection (1) or (2) is exercisable only if-
(a) the person making the arrest has reasonable grounds for believing that for any of the reasons mentioned in subsection (4) it is necessary to arrest the person in question; and
(b) it appears to the person making the arrest that it is not reasonably practicable for a constable to make it instead.
(4) The reasons are to prevent the person in question-
(a) causing physical injury to himself or any other person;
(b) suffering physical injury;
(c) causing loss of or damage to property; or
(d) making off before a constable can assume responsibility for him."
Except that theft is an indictable offence, as the police website points out.
EG: Perfectly legal for shops (or more usually, store detectives) to hold people for shoplifting and call the police. This is done under the principle of citizen's arrest, since the security guards have no official powers given by the state.
PS Also, rather than limiting you, that list gives you a wide remit to detain anyone committing / just commited a crime with a very wide remit, unless there is a copper right next to you; largely because you can effectively argue that it is a reasonable assumption that person X you caught in the middle of committing a crime is going to try and scarper before the police get there.
EG: Perfectly legal for shops (or more usually, store detectives) to hold people for shoplifting and call the police. This is done under the principle of citizen's arrest, since the security guards have no official powers given by the state.
PS Also, rather than limiting you, that list gives you a wide remit to detain anyone committing / just commited a crime with a very wide remit, unless there is a copper right next to you; largely because you can effectively argue that it is a reasonable assumption that person X you caught in the middle of committing a crime is going to try and scarper before the police get there.
It limits you compared to the old rights, you used to just be able to arrest anyone who commited an arrestable offence, now its just indictable offences.
I apologise if thefts an indictable offence, I didn't think it was.
I stand by everything else though, is it worth it? No not really.
Edit:
I apologise if thefts an indictable offence, I didn't think it was.
I stand by everything else though, is it worth it? No not really.
Edit:
http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/section8/chapter_a.html#02Theft, contrary to section 1 of the 1968 Act.
(Archbold 21-6)
The offence consists of dishonest appropriation of property belonging to another with the intention of permanently depriving the other of it.
Theft is an either-way offence, which carries a penalty on conviction on indictment of up to seven years imprisonment. On summary conviction it carries a penalty of imprisonment for up to six months and/or a fine of up to the statutory maximum.
Yep, it's either way, so indictable and/or summary. I can't see the police giving someone shit for making a citizen's arrest for theft without being able to read the future and see which of those the CPS is going to charge it under.
Anyway, see what you mean about the comparison, it would be a lot smarter to have it for arrestable offences, as there would be less of the above confusion.
Anyway, see what you mean about the comparison, it would be a lot smarter to have it for arrestable offences, as there would be less of the above confusion.
The police may not bother, although more and more the news seems to show that they are more intersted in going after such offences than real offence. But even if the police don't act if the CPS do him summary he can sue you if you arrested him assuming it to be an indictable charge, you on the ground can't decide how they'll charge him, and being sued could seriously muck up peoples plans.
But I think they were trying to get rid of citizens arrest fully, to stop people putting themselves at risk. As always though they didn't want to go full hog or to just leave it be, so we ended up with something in the middle which is loads worse than we had before.
But I think they were trying to get rid of citizens arrest fully, to stop people putting themselves at risk. As always though they didn't want to go full hog or to just leave it be, so we ended up with something in the middle which is loads worse than we had before.
I was almost brutally murdered today!
Well, I was standing in line at the Co-Op waiting for pay for my goods when this dodgy-looking old woman infront of me looked round before reaching into her handbag. I'm pretty sure she was going to get out a knife and stab me loads of times then go back to her car and get a chainsaw to chop me up into loads of pieces, then tie the pieces to her car and drag my bodyparts around the town. Luckily, she only got out her purse, but I could tell she had other intentions. I reckon she was just about to do it but I was only saved by the particularly quick transaction ahead of her which foiled her plot. I really feel like I cheated death. I had cereal for breakfast by the way, and my bedroom is blue. What can I do tomorrow to stop this mad woman? Should I expose my throat to her hoping to induce a slash then get out of the way and karate chop her? Look, there's my cat. Can I stab her first or what?
Well, I was standing in line at the Co-Op waiting for pay for my goods when this dodgy-looking old woman infront of me looked round before reaching into her handbag. I'm pretty sure she was going to get out a knife and stab me loads of times then go back to her car and get a chainsaw to chop me up into loads of pieces, then tie the pieces to her car and drag my bodyparts around the town. Luckily, she only got out her purse, but I could tell she had other intentions. I reckon she was just about to do it but I was only saved by the particularly quick transaction ahead of her which foiled her plot. I really feel like I cheated death. I had cereal for breakfast by the way, and my bedroom is blue. What can I do tomorrow to stop this mad woman? Should I expose my throat to her hoping to induce a slash then get out of the way and karate chop her? Look, there's my cat. Can I stab her first or what?
