During the mid-18th century the British Gov raised what some some consider to be the very first SF unit!
7' Independant Ranger Companies were raised to fight the French and their native American Mercenaries for control of the NE Territories!
Due to the fact that conventional Armies were at best ill equipped and ill trained to combat a Guerrilla type force ( from the Spanish-for Irregular Body of Men!) The British raised a raiding and ambush type force which attacked French columns and Indian camps with never before heard of success rates. their Area of Ops included the Great Lakes, Large Forested areas and the Mountain Ranges! These Forces developed the earliest concepts (recorded outside of Asia) of intelligence gathering, pathfinding and dedicated ambush!
In 1759 Maj Robert Rogers drafted the following set of Standing Orders which quite incredibly still make sense!
1. Don't forget Nothing!
2. Have your Musket clean as a whistle, hatchet scoured, sixty rounds powder and ball and be ready to march at a minutes warning!
3. When you're on the march, act like you would if you was sneaking up on deer. See the enemy first!
4. Tell the truth about what you see and what you did. There is an army depending on you for information.You can lie all you want when telling other folks about the Rangers just never lie to another Ranger or an Officer!
5. Don't never take any chances you don't have to!
6. When we're marching we march single file, far enough that a ball can't go tho' two men
7. If we strike swamp or soft ground spread out abreast so its hard to track!
8. When we march, keep moving till dark so's to give the enemy the least chance to comming up on us!
9. When we camp, half of us sleep, half stay awake
10. If we take prisoners keep them apart they'll cook up stories!
11. Don't ever march home the same way! take another route so's your not ambushed!
12. If'n your in a large or small party keep scouts out 20 yrds ahead , behind and to the flanks so the main body can't be ambushed and wiped out!
13. Every night you'll be told where to meet if if we get attacked by a superior force!
14. Don't ever sit down to eat without posting sentries!
15. Don't sleep beyond dawn, dawn is when the French and Indians attack!
16. Don't cross a river by the regular ford!
17. If your being tracked make a circle and ambush the folks that aim to ambush you
18. Don't stand up when the enemys's coming at you! kneel or hide behind a tree!
19. Let them come in close enough to touch then let him have it and leap out giving him the finish with your hatchet!
Some 200 odd years later Gen. Westmorland issued these same orders to US troops serving in the Vietnam conflict!"
Personally I find it quite incredible that most of these still translate into modern infanteering and are relevant in todays modern combat!
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The Origin of Modern SF
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Hostage_Negotiator
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I'm nearly sure these 'ranger' regiments you're talking about later became the King's Royal Rifle Corps'
They wore dark green to blend in with their surroundings better and had better rifles than the common soldiery. (who only had smoothbore muskets).
There's a story in everything ain't there?
They wore dark green to blend in with their surroundings better and had better rifles than the common soldiery. (who only had smoothbore muskets).
There's a story in everything ain't there?
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!
That's just a ruse to get you out of your scratcher so you can then be used for digging trenches, wiring parties, doorstep patrols and all those other really irritating things you 'have' to do when camping.Don't sleep beyond dawn, dawn is when the French and Indians attack!
You should talk to somebody who gives a f**k.
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Robiz/movie_star_wars_yoda.gif[/img]
El Presidente
[img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v77/Robiz/movie_star_wars_yoda.gif[/img]
El Presidente
Then why doesn't somebody put a stop to it?
I didn't mind brewing up for the crew, it's only a matter of putting the jenny on but all this pish about hanging around til stand down when it's cold, then having to go wash in the same water as three other guys in a canvas bucket just didn't do it for me.
Mind you I always enjoyed a good cough at that time of the morning.
I didn't mind brewing up for the crew, it's only a matter of putting the jenny on but all this pish about hanging around til stand down when it's cold, then having to go wash in the same water as three other guys in a canvas bucket just didn't do it for me.
Mind you I always enjoyed a good cough at that time of the morning.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!
If it's common knowledge that the most likely times of attack are first and last light, then surely everyone stands to for those times. When taking this into account however, doesn't it now make first and last light the most UNlikely times that anyone would attack!! So therefore we dont need to stand to... but then maybe they'll hear about it and start attacking.,...ahhh we could go round in circles. There should be a new convention agreeing never to attack at inconvenient moments!
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Artist
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The green uniformed gentlemen were the precursers of the Light Infantry/Royal Green jackets.
Before 1923 there were two types of Marine:
RMA. Royal Marines Artillery.
RMLI. Royal Marines Light Infantry.
SF nowadays has no regard for what you join up as. As far as I can make out anyone can join any SF unit. A shame really as the SBS were for me the Bees Knees. Their Motto "Not by Strengh, by Guile" summed up the SF way of life. And you had to be a Bootneck. 148 bty were RA but were as near as damnit SB. Now? Any Eeijut can do the farking course!
Artist
Before 1923 there were two types of Marine:
RMA. Royal Marines Artillery.
RMLI. Royal Marines Light Infantry.
SF nowadays has no regard for what you join up as. As far as I can make out anyone can join any SF unit. A shame really as the SBS were for me the Bees Knees. Their Motto "Not by Strengh, by Guile" summed up the SF way of life. And you had to be a Bootneck. 148 bty were RA but were as near as damnit SB. Now? Any Eeijut can do the farking course!
Artist
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markthestab
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i always thought that you had to be a bootie for at least 2 years before you could attempt SBS selection, have they changed it recently?
and for 148 meiktila bty, you have to be R.A basic trained then go into 29 and do AACC and all arms P company and then do naval gunfire o.p assistant trade training i think, but you can join as a radio operator from the navy but they too must do AACC and P company.
Thats what it says on the websites anyway mate, ive been reading about this BTY a lot because im joining R.A full time(just sent of my application yeterday) with the eventual goal of joining these lot .
I was thinking of joining 4/73 sphinx special O.P battery but have recently been told by a member of 29 that these are "a load of w@#k, who think they are SF but arn't", his words not mine before anyone starts but the fact that they wernt deployed on telic 1 and reading up on 148 makes me sure im aiming for the right one.
"If it's common knowledge that the most likely times of attack are first and last light, then surely everyone stands to for those times. When taking this into account however, doesn't it now make first and last light the most UNlikely times that anyone would attack!! So therefore we dont need to stand to... but then maybe they'll hear about it and start attacking.,...ahhh we could go round in circles. There should be a new convention agreeing never to attack at inconvenient moments! "
Kign duck, i was watching the news the other day to see that a lot of the intructors from sandhurst have been sent out to train Iraqi officers in exactly the same way they train our ruperts, so surely if any of these are insurgents who have bypassed the intense selection process of having 2 arms and 2 legs they will have a good idea on when and how to attack british troops, seems a bit mental to me, just a thought like.
and for 148 meiktila bty, you have to be R.A basic trained then go into 29 and do AACC and all arms P company and then do naval gunfire o.p assistant trade training i think, but you can join as a radio operator from the navy but they too must do AACC and P company.
Thats what it says on the websites anyway mate, ive been reading about this BTY a lot because im joining R.A full time(just sent of my application yeterday) with the eventual goal of joining these lot .
I was thinking of joining 4/73 sphinx special O.P battery but have recently been told by a member of 29 that these are "a load of w@#k, who think they are SF but arn't", his words not mine before anyone starts but the fact that they wernt deployed on telic 1 and reading up on 148 makes me sure im aiming for the right one.
"If it's common knowledge that the most likely times of attack are first and last light, then surely everyone stands to for those times. When taking this into account however, doesn't it now make first and last light the most UNlikely times that anyone would attack!! So therefore we dont need to stand to... but then maybe they'll hear about it and start attacking.,...ahhh we could go round in circles. There should be a new convention agreeing never to attack at inconvenient moments! "
Kign duck, i was watching the news the other day to see that a lot of the intructors from sandhurst have been sent out to train Iraqi officers in exactly the same way they train our ruperts, so surely if any of these are insurgents who have bypassed the intense selection process of having 2 arms and 2 legs they will have a good idea on when and how to attack british troops, seems a bit mental to me, just a thought like.
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markthestab
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though i spose you know all this being an SAS reserve artist but i'd just thought it makes interesting reading mate
"The 148 (Meiktla) Cdo. F/O Btry. is an elite unit of highly trained Naval Gunfire Forward Observers (NGFO). Unit members are drawn from both the Army and Royal Navy (RN). Radio operators are recruited from the Royal Navy, while gunners are drawn from the Royal Artillery (RA), with most unit support personnel bring drawn from the Army. Assigned to the Royal Marines (RM) 3 Commando Brigade (3 Cdo. Bde.), the unit provides teams of forward observers and radio operators to both conventional and special operations units.
Originally formed during World War 2, the unit would eventually evolve into the 95 Forward Observation Unit (95 FOU). In 1975 the unit was reduced to its current size and colocated with the SBS at Royal Marines Poole. It was tasked with providing FO teams to the Royal Marines, the Parachute Regiment; the Allied Mobile Force (Land)-AMF(L) and the SBS. The smaller sized unit soon found it was unable to meet its many obligations.
With the Argentine invasion of the Falklands, the unit found itself speeding toward the South Atlantic. Operating alongside both the SAS and SBS, the teams soon proved their worth. The skills of the commando trained unit were in high demand as commanders rediscovered their usefulness. FO teams were rushed about the island as the British pushed their way toward the capital at Port Stanley. FO teams poured carefully placed artillery fire and air strikes onto Argentine positions in support of every major British assault. With the Argentine surrender the unit returned to its home.
The 148 Btry. consists of radio operators, gunners, and a support staff. All prospective volunteers must first complete the Royal Marine's commando course, parachute selection and then the basic parachute course. After being selected they then undergo six months of basic naval gunfire training. During the course troops are trained in advanced communications, Morse code, adjusting both naval gunfire and artillery, forward air control techniques, and helicopter operations, including helicopter rappels. Upon completion of the course the new Naval Gunfire Assistant (NGA) will be assigned to a forward observation team. "
"The 148 (Meiktla) Cdo. F/O Btry. is an elite unit of highly trained Naval Gunfire Forward Observers (NGFO). Unit members are drawn from both the Army and Royal Navy (RN). Radio operators are recruited from the Royal Navy, while gunners are drawn from the Royal Artillery (RA), with most unit support personnel bring drawn from the Army. Assigned to the Royal Marines (RM) 3 Commando Brigade (3 Cdo. Bde.), the unit provides teams of forward observers and radio operators to both conventional and special operations units.
Originally formed during World War 2, the unit would eventually evolve into the 95 Forward Observation Unit (95 FOU). In 1975 the unit was reduced to its current size and colocated with the SBS at Royal Marines Poole. It was tasked with providing FO teams to the Royal Marines, the Parachute Regiment; the Allied Mobile Force (Land)-AMF(L) and the SBS. The smaller sized unit soon found it was unable to meet its many obligations.
With the Argentine invasion of the Falklands, the unit found itself speeding toward the South Atlantic. Operating alongside both the SAS and SBS, the teams soon proved their worth. The skills of the commando trained unit were in high demand as commanders rediscovered their usefulness. FO teams were rushed about the island as the British pushed their way toward the capital at Port Stanley. FO teams poured carefully placed artillery fire and air strikes onto Argentine positions in support of every major British assault. With the Argentine surrender the unit returned to its home.
The 148 Btry. consists of radio operators, gunners, and a support staff. All prospective volunteers must first complete the Royal Marine's commando course, parachute selection and then the basic parachute course. After being selected they then undergo six months of basic naval gunfire training. During the course troops are trained in advanced communications, Morse code, adjusting both naval gunfire and artillery, forward air control techniques, and helicopter operations, including helicopter rappels. Upon completion of the course the new Naval Gunfire Assistant (NGA) will be assigned to a forward observation team. "
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sneaky beaky
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I think that my point was: they were "Special Forces" in their day. They used different weapons, carried no colours, wore camoflage, practiced fieldcraft and skirmishing and signalled in a different way to line infantry.Artist wrote:The green uniformed gentlemen were the precursers of the Light Infantry/Royal Green jackets.
Before 1923 there were two types of Marine:
RMA. Royal Marines Artillery.
RMLI. Royal Marines Light Infantry.
SF nowadays has no regard for what you join up as. As far as I can make out anyone can join any SF unit. A shame really as the SBS were for me the Bees Knees. Their Motto "Not by Strengh, by Guile" summed up the SF way of life. And you had to be a Bootneck. 148 bty were RA but were as near as damnit SB. Now? Any Eeijut can do the farking course!
Artist
In fairness to them then they were 'specialised'.
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam!
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sneaky beaky
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GD. I think you may be right. Rogers Rangers displayed all the characteristics of SF. Operating deep behind enemy lines etc. and they well be the first instance of an SF unit.
As far as the SBS is concerned - I go along with Artist's comment's :-
Goodbye the good old days.
Sneaky
As far as the SBS is concerned - I go along with Artist's comment's :-
And the motto has now changed to " By Strength and Guile". A bit subtle, you might think - but a total change of emphasis.SF nowadays has no regard for what you join up as. As far as I can make out anyone can join any SF unit. A shame really as the SBS were for me the Bees Knees. Their Motto "Not by Strengh, by Guile" summed up the SF way of life. And you had to be a Bootneck. 148 bty were RA but were as near as damnit SB. Now? Any Eeijut can do the farking course!
Goodbye the good old days.
Sneaky
Former RM of 23 years.
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markthestab
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markthestab
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but in theory doesnt that mean they can now have that and poach everyone elses best men?Sticky Blue wrote:The SBS were special because they took the top from the cream of the Corps
or doesnt it work that way in practice?
are you lot saying its a bad idea because it effects morale because theyre not all from the corps or is it more than that?
