I must get this info somehow on the net as I'm Bloody fuming its a B ydisgrace
Regards.
Aye.
Rod.
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Marines Graves
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Rod Spinks
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- Location: Ipswich.Suffolk
Marines Graves
Hi Guy's had an e-mail off Blood Reed in Hawahi ( former Marine ) who sent me a distubing e-mail regarding some Navy/Marines graves in Athens .Greece.Apparently the word is they were going to just throw the remains elswhere to put a car park in for the 2004 Olympic games.How can I get the actual e-mail onto our site,or perhaps somebody with brains would like me to send the e-mail to them.Lad's THIS SHOULD NOT HAPPEN AND IT's UP TO US TO STOP IT right.apparently the Men killed where of a HMS Devonshire and an accident occured thats how they came to be buried in Greece.
I must get this info somehow on the net as I'm Bloody fuming its a B ydisgrace
Regards.
Aye.
Rod.
I must get this info somehow on the net as I'm Bloody fuming its a B ydisgrace
Regards.
Aye.
Rod.
HENRY
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Andy O'Pray
- Member
- Posts: 3189
- Joined: Thu 06 Dec, 2001 12:00 am
- Location: www
Posted on behalf of Rod.....
Cheers
Loz
Anybody out there who can help???From: "brian.bergan"
>To: <@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Subject: Navy/Royal Marine dead held hostage in row over grave fees
>Date: Sun, 20 Jul 2003 17:23:50 +0100
>
>I am writing to you in hope that you can help me in respect of articles
>printed in the Western Morning News and the Daily Telegraph both dated the
>19th July 2003.
>The articles concern Marine/Naval personel killed on HMS Devonshire when a
>gun turret exploded during training while anchored of Greece 26th July
>1929. As I understood no remains were left after the explosion, therefore
>there was no grave for my Grandfather and a window was dedicated to him in
>the local church. My Mother and Aunty were distressed to read in the paper
>that there is a grave and the grave yard was going to be dug up to make a
>car park for Athens 2004. The fate of the remains are unclear the headline
>in the Western Morning News being "I'll Throw Marines Remains in a Ditch".
>Any assistance you could give me in the form of addresses or contacts would
>be appreciated
>
> Brian Bergan ex S/Sgt Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers
Cheers
Loz
OK Folks, I've found the Western Morning News online. Here are the articles.....
'I'LL THROW MARINES' REMAINS IN A DITCH'
09:00 - 19 July 2003
A greek official has threatened to throw the remains of British servicemen killed on a Westcountry warship more than 70 years ago into a ditch if the Government does not pay £28,000 in cemetery fees. The graves of 15 Royal Marines and one Indian serviceman who died in an explosion on HMS Devonshire have rested undisturbed in a small patch of a Greek cemetery since 1929.
A decision to turn the site into a park has led to Greek officials demanding seven decades of grave fees to allow the remains to be exhumed and reburied.
The wrangle highlights a clash of cultures regarding grave plots: the untouchable sanctity common in Britain and regular exhumations in Greece because of limited cemetery space.
The British Embassy was informed nearly two months ago of the need to move the remains of the British servicemen buried in Nea Ionia, just outside the central port of Kolos.
Grave fees of £72 per year since 1929 for the use of this land had not been paid by Britain, said Konstantinos Morfogiannis, a city council member charged with cemetery maintenance. Britain has asked if the £85,000 cost could be waived because of its long-standing alliance with Greece, said Mr Morfogiannis.
"But the soldiers didn't die during a time of war," said Odysseas Karavas, president of the cemetery maintenance association.
The servicemen were killed by an explosion on HMS Devonshire which had sailed from Devonport to take part in exercises in July 1929, near the island of Skiathos, about 100 miles north-west of Athens.
The total fee for the exhumations has been reduced to about £28,000, as discussions continue about payment.
Mr Morfogiannis said: "If Britain does not pay up, we will exhume the remains with all the honours befitted the dead.
"We will put them in a ditch and send the British Embassy a court order to pay.
"I cannot accept a little old lady giving me her only 100 euros for an exhumation and the British Embassy wanting a free ride."
The British Embassy in Athens said the Commonwealth War Graves Commission in Thessaloniki was in contact with local authorities to settle the issue.
Plans are being made to have the British servicemen reburied at a Commonwealth cemetery in Faliron outside Athens.
A survivor of the 1929 explosion on HMS Devonshire was Alexander Maxwell-Hyslop, a Lieutenant Commander serving as a gunnery officer.
He was awarded the Albert Medal and later the George Cross for risking his life after the explosion to assist the victims.
He later commanded the Naval Officers Selection station at HMS Raleigh, Torpoint. He was invalided out of the Navy in 1946 and retired to Par, Cornwall, where he became a councillor. He died in 1978.
His George Cross was presented to the Speaker of the House of Commons by his son, Sir Robin Maxwell-Hyslop, MP for Tiverton for many years until 1992.
'I'LL THROW MARINES' REMAINS IN A DITCH'
09:00 - 19 July 2003
A greek official has threatened to throw the remains of British servicemen killed on a Westcountry warship more than 70 years ago into a ditch if the Government does not pay £28,000 in cemetery fees. The graves of 15 Royal Marines and one Indian serviceman who died in an explosion on HMS Devonshire have rested undisturbed in a small patch of a Greek cemetery since 1929.
A decision to turn the site into a park has led to Greek officials demanding seven decades of grave fees to allow the remains to be exhumed and reburied.
The wrangle highlights a clash of cultures regarding grave plots: the untouchable sanctity common in Britain and regular exhumations in Greece because of limited cemetery space.
The British Embassy was informed nearly two months ago of the need to move the remains of the British servicemen buried in Nea Ionia, just outside the central port of Kolos.
Grave fees of £72 per year since 1929 for the use of this land had not been paid by Britain, said Konstantinos Morfogiannis, a city council member charged with cemetery maintenance. Britain has asked if the £85,000 cost could be waived because of its long-standing alliance with Greece, said Mr Morfogiannis.
"But the soldiers didn't die during a time of war," said Odysseas Karavas, president of the cemetery maintenance association.
The servicemen were killed by an explosion on HMS Devonshire which had sailed from Devonport to take part in exercises in July 1929, near the island of Skiathos, about 100 miles north-west of Athens.
The total fee for the exhumations has been reduced to about £28,000, as discussions continue about payment.
Mr Morfogiannis said: "If Britain does not pay up, we will exhume the remains with all the honours befitted the dead.
"We will put them in a ditch and send the British Embassy a court order to pay.
"I cannot accept a little old lady giving me her only 100 euros for an exhumation and the British Embassy wanting a free ride."
The British Embassy in Athens said the Commonwealth War Graves Commission in Thessaloniki was in contact with local authorities to settle the issue.
Plans are being made to have the British servicemen reburied at a Commonwealth cemetery in Faliron outside Athens.
A survivor of the 1929 explosion on HMS Devonshire was Alexander Maxwell-Hyslop, a Lieutenant Commander serving as a gunnery officer.
He was awarded the Albert Medal and later the George Cross for risking his life after the explosion to assist the victims.
He later commanded the Naval Officers Selection station at HMS Raleigh, Torpoint. He was invalided out of the Navy in 1946 and retired to Par, Cornwall, where he became a councillor. He died in 1978.
His George Cross was presented to the Speaker of the House of Commons by his son, Sir Robin Maxwell-Hyslop, MP for Tiverton for many years until 1992.
GREEK THREAT OVER REMAINS OF MARINES
11:52 - 19 July 2003
A Greek official has threatened to throw the remains of British servicemen, killed in an accident more than 70 years ago, into a ditch if the Government does not pay £28,000.
The servicemen were killed by an explosion on board the warship HMS Devonshire during exercises in July 1929, near the island of Skiathos, about 100 miles north-west of Athens.
The graves of the 16 Royal Marines and sailors have rested undisturbed in a small patch of a Greek cemetery.
But a decision to turn the site into a park now has Greek officials demanding more than seven decades of grave fees to allow the remains to be exhumed and reburied.
The unusual wrangle highlights two distinct cultures regarding grave plots: the untouchable sanctity common in Britain and elsewhere and the routine practice of exhumations in Greece because of limited cemetery space.
The British Embassy was informed nearly two months ago of the need to move 14 Royal Marines and two Royal Navy sailors buried in Nea Ionia, just outside the central port of Kolos.
The grave fees of £72 per grave per year since 1929 for land use are unpaid, said Konstantinos Morfogiannis, a city council member charged with cemetery maintenance.
British officials asked if the £85,000 cost could be waived because they are long-standing Greek allies, he said.
"But the soldiers didn't die during a time of war," said Odysseas Karavas, president of the cemetery maintenance association. "They weren't here to fight."
And if the Britain does pay?
"We will exhume the remains with all the honours befitted the dead. We will put them in a ditch and send the British Embassy a court order to pay," Morfogiannis said.
The British Embassy in Athens said the Commonwealth War Graves Commission in Thessaloniki was in contact with local authorities to settle the issue.
Plans are being made to have the British soldiers reburied at the Commonwealth cemetery in Faliron outside Athens.
11:52 - 19 July 2003
A Greek official has threatened to throw the remains of British servicemen, killed in an accident more than 70 years ago, into a ditch if the Government does not pay £28,000.
The servicemen were killed by an explosion on board the warship HMS Devonshire during exercises in July 1929, near the island of Skiathos, about 100 miles north-west of Athens.
The graves of the 16 Royal Marines and sailors have rested undisturbed in a small patch of a Greek cemetery.
But a decision to turn the site into a park now has Greek officials demanding more than seven decades of grave fees to allow the remains to be exhumed and reburied.
The unusual wrangle highlights two distinct cultures regarding grave plots: the untouchable sanctity common in Britain and elsewhere and the routine practice of exhumations in Greece because of limited cemetery space.
The British Embassy was informed nearly two months ago of the need to move 14 Royal Marines and two Royal Navy sailors buried in Nea Ionia, just outside the central port of Kolos.
The grave fees of £72 per grave per year since 1929 for land use are unpaid, said Konstantinos Morfogiannis, a city council member charged with cemetery maintenance.
British officials asked if the £85,000 cost could be waived because they are long-standing Greek allies, he said.
"But the soldiers didn't die during a time of war," said Odysseas Karavas, president of the cemetery maintenance association. "They weren't here to fight."
And if the Britain does pay?
"We will exhume the remains with all the honours befitted the dead. We will put them in a ditch and send the British Embassy a court order to pay," Morfogiannis said.
The British Embassy in Athens said the Commonwealth War Graves Commission in Thessaloniki was in contact with local authorities to settle the issue.
Plans are being made to have the British soldiers reburied at the Commonwealth cemetery in Faliron outside Athens.
'DISGRACEFUL' THREAT TO UK WAR GRAVES
PAUL BERGER
09:00 - 22 July 2003
The daughter of a Royal Marine killed in an explosion more than 70 years ago has said that a Greek official's threat to throw the remains of servicemen buried in a Greek cemetery into a ditch was disgraceful. Veronica Gooding, of Budleigh Salterton, near Exmouth, was four months old when her father Sergeant Walter Snell was killed after an 8ins gun exploded aboard HMS Devonshire on July 26, 1929. Eighteen other servicemen were also killed. Sgt Snell's body was never recovered, but 15 of his fellow men were buried in a small cemetery just outside the Greek port of Volos.
Plans to build a park on the site have led to some Volos councillors demanding a backpayment of £85,000 from the UK Government for cemetery fees. That figure has since been reduced to £28,000.
Konstantinos Morfogiannis, a city council member charged with cemetery maintenance, said last week that grave fees of £72 per year since 1929 for the use of the land had not been paid by Britain.
He said: "If Britain does not pay up, we will exhume the remains with all the honours befitting the dead.
"We will put them in a ditch and send the British Embassy a court order to pay."
Mrs Gooding, 74, said: "I think it is dreadful.
"I wouldn't mind if my father was buried out there and they had moved him to another memorial garden.
"It was just the heartless way everything was said."
A stained glass window was unveiled at the Church of St Mary the Virgin, at Washfield, near Tiverton, in memory of Sgt Snell soon after he died.
But Mrs Gooding said that she was amazed when she saw a photograph in Saturday's Western Morning News of a memorial stone to all of the men, including her father, in the cemetery at Volos.
"It was a dreadful shock after all these years," she said.
"We were told that he was killed in this dreadful accident and that he was buried at sea. But the stained glass window was the only memorial that I thought there was to him."
An MoD spokesman said that the graves at Volos would be moved to a Commonwealth War Graves cemetery at Phaleron, near Athens.
Discussions are continuing over the cost of exhuming the servicemen, but the spokesman said that any expense would be met by the MoD.
As well as containing the graves of 16 men from HMS Devonshire, the cemetery is also the resting place of two leading seamen who died in 1891 and one able seaman who died in 1902, the spokesman said.
He added that the memorial stone, which is 8ft tall, could be brought back to the Royal Marines Museum, at Southsea in Portsmouth.
Matthew Little, an archivist at the museum, said the stone would be placed in the museum's Memorial Garden, alongside memorials to soldiers from the First World War and subsequent conflicts.
He said that it was still not known when the memorial at Volos had been erected, although it was thought to be between 1929 and 1939. It was probably paid for using subscriptions from service personnel and their relatives.
Sgt Snell, who was 35 when he was killed, had only four years remaining before completing his 21 years with the Marines.
Mr Little said that the explosion aboard HMS Devonshire, which had only been launched the previous year, would have been the largest loss of life since the First World War.
PAUL BERGER
09:00 - 22 July 2003
The daughter of a Royal Marine killed in an explosion more than 70 years ago has said that a Greek official's threat to throw the remains of servicemen buried in a Greek cemetery into a ditch was disgraceful. Veronica Gooding, of Budleigh Salterton, near Exmouth, was four months old when her father Sergeant Walter Snell was killed after an 8ins gun exploded aboard HMS Devonshire on July 26, 1929. Eighteen other servicemen were also killed. Sgt Snell's body was never recovered, but 15 of his fellow men were buried in a small cemetery just outside the Greek port of Volos.
Plans to build a park on the site have led to some Volos councillors demanding a backpayment of £85,000 from the UK Government for cemetery fees. That figure has since been reduced to £28,000.
Konstantinos Morfogiannis, a city council member charged with cemetery maintenance, said last week that grave fees of £72 per year since 1929 for the use of the land had not been paid by Britain.
He said: "If Britain does not pay up, we will exhume the remains with all the honours befitting the dead.
"We will put them in a ditch and send the British Embassy a court order to pay."
Mrs Gooding, 74, said: "I think it is dreadful.
"I wouldn't mind if my father was buried out there and they had moved him to another memorial garden.
"It was just the heartless way everything was said."
A stained glass window was unveiled at the Church of St Mary the Virgin, at Washfield, near Tiverton, in memory of Sgt Snell soon after he died.
But Mrs Gooding said that she was amazed when she saw a photograph in Saturday's Western Morning News of a memorial stone to all of the men, including her father, in the cemetery at Volos.
"It was a dreadful shock after all these years," she said.
"We were told that he was killed in this dreadful accident and that he was buried at sea. But the stained glass window was the only memorial that I thought there was to him."
An MoD spokesman said that the graves at Volos would be moved to a Commonwealth War Graves cemetery at Phaleron, near Athens.
Discussions are continuing over the cost of exhuming the servicemen, but the spokesman said that any expense would be met by the MoD.
As well as containing the graves of 16 men from HMS Devonshire, the cemetery is also the resting place of two leading seamen who died in 1891 and one able seaman who died in 1902, the spokesman said.
He added that the memorial stone, which is 8ft tall, could be brought back to the Royal Marines Museum, at Southsea in Portsmouth.
Matthew Little, an archivist at the museum, said the stone would be placed in the museum's Memorial Garden, alongside memorials to soldiers from the First World War and subsequent conflicts.
He said that it was still not known when the memorial at Volos had been erected, although it was thought to be between 1929 and 1939. It was probably paid for using subscriptions from service personnel and their relatives.
Sgt Snell, who was 35 when he was killed, had only four years remaining before completing his 21 years with the Marines.
Mr Little said that the explosion aboard HMS Devonshire, which had only been launched the previous year, would have been the largest loss of life since the First World War.
ROW OVER BURIAL OF WAR DEAD
12:00 - 22 July 2003
Defence officials are trying to stop authorities in Greece 'ditching' the remains of 14 Royal Marines and two Royal Navy servicemen who died in a military accident in 1929. The graves of the 16 Royal Marines and sailors have rested undisturbed in a cemetery in Volos - a city on the Greek mainland - since a peacetime gun turret explosion on board HMS Devonshire in 1929 near the island of Skiathos, about 100 miles north-west of Athens.
But Volos city officials have threatened to throw the remains into a ditch if the government does not pay outstanding grave fees of £28,000.
The British Government and the city officials are now in open-ended negotiations to resolve the dispute.
The British Embassy was informed in May of the need to move the marines and sailors because the Volos authorities wanted to turn the cemetery into a park.
Grave fees of £72 per grave per year since 1929 for land use were unpaid, said Konstantinos Morfogiannis, a city council member charged with cemetery maintenance.
British officials asked if the £85,000 cost could be waived because they are long-standing Greek allies, he said.
The fee for exhumations was reduced to about £28,000, which the British plan to pay early next month, said Morfogiannis. But British officials have yet to decide where to rebury the men and have not confirmed they will pay.
Cyril Blackman, Chairman of the Plymouth Royal Marines Association, said: "I hope this will be resolved quickly."
12:00 - 22 July 2003
Defence officials are trying to stop authorities in Greece 'ditching' the remains of 14 Royal Marines and two Royal Navy servicemen who died in a military accident in 1929. The graves of the 16 Royal Marines and sailors have rested undisturbed in a cemetery in Volos - a city on the Greek mainland - since a peacetime gun turret explosion on board HMS Devonshire in 1929 near the island of Skiathos, about 100 miles north-west of Athens.
But Volos city officials have threatened to throw the remains into a ditch if the government does not pay outstanding grave fees of £28,000.
The British Government and the city officials are now in open-ended negotiations to resolve the dispute.
The British Embassy was informed in May of the need to move the marines and sailors because the Volos authorities wanted to turn the cemetery into a park.
Grave fees of £72 per grave per year since 1929 for land use were unpaid, said Konstantinos Morfogiannis, a city council member charged with cemetery maintenance.
British officials asked if the £85,000 cost could be waived because they are long-standing Greek allies, he said.
The fee for exhumations was reduced to about £28,000, which the British plan to pay early next month, said Morfogiannis. But British officials have yet to decide where to rebury the men and have not confirmed they will pay.
Cyril Blackman, Chairman of the Plymouth Royal Marines Association, said: "I hope this will be resolved quickly."
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Andy O'Pray
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Twenty One
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- Location: Paisley,Renfrewshire
Update from Rod Spinks
Received the following from Rod.......
Also attached was the translated letter......
I did get a photo as well of the plot but I can't seem to upload it to my photo book thing.
If anyone wants to see it, PM me with your email address and I'll pass it on.
Loz
x
Received the following from Rod.......
Hi,
just to keep you up to date with the saga of the graves of the Marines Killed on HMS Devonshire in 1929.
I have attached a translation by the British Embassy in Athens of a letter received from Volos/Nea Ionia Cemetery commision confirming that the graves will be left undisturbed. The plot will be declared an Historic Monument and the Commonwealth War Graves Commision in Greece will maintain the plot.
I have also sent a picture supplied to me by the Naval Attache in Athens of the plot taken in November 2003.
Thank you for your help and ideas.
Brian Bergan
Also attached was the translated letter......
Your excellency,
As the new chairman of the Administrative Board of the Volos/Nea Ionia Urban Group Cemetery Association, I have much pleasure in informing you that at its meeting of 20 November 2003 the board has decided:
(a) to stop any action by our side with regard to the claim for a maintenance fee for the British military graves at the Taxiarches cemetery
(b) to consider the matter closed.
(c) to adhere to the arrangements existing before this question was brought up by the previous board, unless your side wishes to take some other action.
I, personally, in my additional capacity as a physician who has served with the British National Health System (NHS), would like to express my particular satifaction at this development which reflects our feelings of respect for the memory of the officers and crew of HMS Devonshire.
Yours sincerely
Christos Stathopoulos MD
(Volos Municipal Councillor)
I did get a photo as well of the plot but I can't seem to upload it to my photo book thing.
If anyone wants to see it, PM me with your email address and I'll pass it on.
Loz
x
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Rod Spinks
- Member
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Thu 03 Apr, 2003 5:31 pm
- Location: Ipswich.Suffolk
Happy ending
Thanks Loz for putting the info on web site reference Remains in Greece.It must be good for the families now knowing that there loved one's can stay where they are,the Guy who made the decision must be the only one with any sence.
Regards
Rod
RM's.
Regards
Rod
RM's.
HENRY
