Restorative Justice

[Wully]

Anybody read about the lastest government scam called 'Restorative Justice' where instead of punishing the criminal for his crime they make him apologise to the victim? Can you just imagine it:-

Policeman arrives at house of an eighty year old widow with young villian.
"Hello Mrs Smith this is the young gentleman who beat seven bells of shit out of you and put you in hospital for six months so he could steal a few pounds out of your purse. He is now sorry for his crime and to show our appreciation of this we have promised not to punsih him, instead we will give him £400 a week so he won't have to steal any more to feed his drug habit. Now Mrs Smith doesn't that make you feel good?"
Makes me want to vomit.
Who are these goons who rule our country and make these decisions? I don't believe they live in the real world. Are they so insulated from the rest of us that they really don't know what is happening in our country?
Doesn't it just go to show you have our government have more concern for the criminal than they do for the victim. Maybe I'm just being cynical but at times like this I honestly despair for the future of my grandchildren - do they have a future in England? I wish to God I knew the answer

[Maverick]

The reason that restorative justice may be introduced is because victims of crime have wanted to play a bigger role in the prosecution of criminals.

They want the chance to say 'look what you have done to me..look what you have done to my family'. This is in addition to other penalties - not an alternative.

In the UK a victim of crime is merely a witness to the event. Once the person has been charged the only role the victim has is to give evidence. People want victims to have a greater part to play - after all they are the ones who have suffered.

The US has 'impact statements'. This is where victims or their families have the chance to read a statement in court at the sentencing stage in an attempt to show the convicted criminal how their crime has affected them.

Its all an attempt to better integrate the victim into the justice system, and should be welcomed.

Also, don't be afraid of attempts to change the justice system in the UK. The system isn't perfect but law professors are constantly working on ways to improve it.

Look at that guy who killed Jamie Bulger. The justice system has managed to turn an individual who committed a horrific crime into a young man who is now studying at college. Some may say that this is a victory for the English system. Others may say that he should rot in jail till he dies.

However, a modern system of justice has to look at the better needs of society. If it can rehabiltate offenders and turn them into better citizens then it should be welcomed with open arms. If it sticks them in jail for 15 years then releases them as violent criminals the it has failed.

[Wully]

Do you believe that being soft on crime is the way ahead and that it will eventually turn these young criminals away from crime if they realise that they aren't going to be imprisioned in the future?

[Maverick]

Its not about being soft on criminals. Its about finding the best way to punish criminals whilst meeting the needs of society.

There are 3 main category's of punishment. Retribution, rehabilation and deterence.

We need all 3. We need retribution because victims need to know that the criminal has paid for what they done. We need an element of deterence because people need to know what will happen to them if they decide to commit a crime.

However, rehabilation has been neglected up until recently and is so important. People used to be locked up then realised as violent and as dangerous as they were when they entered. Often more so.

Look at the figures for re-offending. The justice system is often accused of being soft on criminals but all it is actually doing is finding ways of treating them. Whats the point of locking people up if they are going to come out and repeat what they had done?

The aim of any modern system of justice has to be to rehabilitate a criminal into a model citize, whilst punishing them for the crime they have committed. If it can do that it has served its purpose.

[TheCount]

I like the Idea.

Maybe if the Criminals get a chance to meet their Victims and see how it effected them it may make them think twice about their future.

Burglary is a very impersonal affair, where as things like beatings and knifings are different and the only reason I'd want to meet my offender is to pay him back in kind.

[Wully]

Looks like I'm outnumbered here so we'll just have to agree to differ. I'm very old fashioned in my views on crime and I think that if you commit a crime you should get punished and punished severly. Maybe if prisons were made to be more of a punishment than a holiday away from rigours of daily life then there might be a bit less re-offending.

[gash-hand]

I'm no expert in this matter but I have picked a few things up along the way.

I think in the case of criminals getting money to stay out of trouble can easily be manipulated by the press. If I am correct this money is used to try to stop long term drug users commiting crime to feed their habit, although it sounds mad if you look at the cost to the victim, the justice system and detention centers then what they are given to keep out of trouble is far far cheaper - I accept that it looks like they have gotten away with it, but whats the alternative? Back to prison and no future when they get out so re-commit and back inside again, and around we go in the cycle thats been occuring for years and years.

As for prison being cushy - I don't know I've never been there,but I read somewhere that the real punishment for crims is when they get out and discover that their old life has changed forever - hence the high re-committal rate - prison becomes their life as it is the only true constant.

Its a tricky balancing act to try and please everyone but I think some of the progressive lines of thought being tried at least shows a degree of effort on the politicians part. Most of the findings have also come from the US, who if I remember rightly warned of the explosion of drug related crime this country would suffer about 30 years ago.

I guess another problem is the publics view of a criminal, lets not lose sight of the fact that some can and are rehabilitated, most come from sh*t backgrounds, drugs, abuse, etc etc. mabay some of them deserve a second chance? I had a second chance in life - it could have been different if i'd been condemmend to borstal to 'rot in hell'. who knows?

They are people at the end of the day, and no I don't condone their actions in the slightest, but alls I'm saying is that might be another reasoning or alternative to punishment in its traditional sense.

Of course the daily mail and express readers won't agree with this they'll want them executed or to spend life in prison - funny how thats the only options they can ever come up with, nobodys been able to provide me with the financial solution of how we can keep them all in prison either - unless we raise income tax to a level that will have most of the aforementioned newspaper readership choking on their pg tips - second thoughts lets do it

[Andy O'Pray]

Wully,

You are not alone, I am an advocate for the return of capital and corporal punishment. It is guaranteed that a hanged murderer will not re-offend. Twelve strokes of the birch usually make thugs think again before committing another crime.

In today's society I will be considered a neanderthal, but it seems that when neanderthals ran society we did not have as much crime.

Aye - Andy.

[PHIL]

Looks like I'm outnumbered here so we'll just have to agree to differ. I'm very old fashioned in my views on crime and I think that if you commit a crime you should get punished and punished severly. Maybe if prisons were made to be more of a punishment than a holiday away from rigours of daily life then there might be a bit less re-offending.

Not so, I agree with you Wully we are too easy on these little punks.
But... could you imagine your elderly grand-mother meeting her attacker 6 months down the line and having to stand there being intimated and having the pain all brought back up again, she'd be frozen with horror.

I am in favour of the elderly lady who said to a bungling burglar this: (who got trapped on a broken window that he entered)
Burglar: "Help phone 999, I'm dying"
Lady: "GOOD!"

If your willing to take the risk you must be willing to take the consequences.

PHIL

[Wully]

Andy, if they held a referendum on the return of capital punushment tomorrow I would vote a big big YES.

[JR]

Living in a rural Farm area,I have a notice placed in a prominent position,'The Tony Martin security system in force in this location'.Aye JR

Justice is a pump action 'Mosberg'

[Maverick]

Capital punishment is premeditated murder and there is not one shred of evidence that it deters criminals.

Do you think that a criminals think of the consequences when they commit rape or murder? Whether or not its life in jail or the Chair it isn't going to make a difference. Either way they know that if they're caught - they're f**ked.

The whole execution process horrify's me. Its so calculated and precise that it is disgusting. Sometimes I think it would be better if they just took them outside and kicked them to death - at least that way the authorities couldn't hide behind their death rules and regulations.

Some criminals deserve to be locked up for life. However, no civilised society should use the death penalty. Ever.

[Wully]

Good on you JR, way to go.
Maverick, maybe kicking them to death would be a better punishment than hanging. As they say 'for some of them hanging is too good'

[Tab]

The other evening I saw a programe on television where a number of crooks were talking about their rights to sue a householder if they got injured why carrying out there trade. Now how daft can the system get.
I remember a time when crooks would check each other before doing a robbery, the reason was if any one one of them carried a weapon and used it during the robbery then they where guilty of murder and would hang. So weapons where out, if you punched some one in the face during a fight and he fell down and hit his head, and died, it was manslaughter and it was 10 years hard labour no if and but's. I can remember a time that if any one got killed during a robbery it was headlines for months.
There was not any attacks on old people, it just was not done, so did the old punishment work or do the new ones do a better job.

[Andy O'Pray]

Maverick,

That is where you and 70% of the population disagree with each other. Fry them.

Aye - Andy.