Women in the Special Forces

[freestyler_onli]

Someone mentioned something such as: 'If women were allowed to apply for SF, then they should have to pass the tests under the same time limits/regulations as the men.'
When i was waiting for my fitness test date for the old bill, I got a letter saying that because most women were finding the bleep test too hard, they were having to lower the level. This applied to the men as well (equal oportunities). The level went down to 5.4 ffs. I recall using up more energy going for the piss before the test!

[HavocIRL]

It's not as if the women wanted it to change (I know some of them might have). Some of them got through without any allowances which is admirable. The old bill as you call it only changed the policy cos it looks good when theres a 1:1 ratio of women and men. Judging all women who applied after this and passed doesn't mean that they all couldn't have done the original requirement.

"Man's (the male) natural reflex is to protect a woman at all costs, that is pimeval and cannot be changed by training."

As you so eloquently put it. Are you not also trained to protect/defend squadmates and peers.

[Noz]

If you want to read about women in combat situations and such-like try this book -

Muir, Kate. Arms and the Woman. London, Sinclair-Stevenson, 1992.
Book call no.: 355.0082 M953a

It details quite a few things in it like how the Canadians opened up an Infantry course for women and only one passed (and she was a lumberjack before joining )

How the Israelis had numerous problems with their men trying to help/aid women on the battlefield.

How there were women who came home in bodybags. Bullets and shells don't know where the frontline ends and secondline begins

I admit to enjoying the time I spent as an attached arms soldier with the paras. I took part in all the activities that the lads did apart from parachuting. I've done live fire exercises, tabs, patrols - I've been cold, wet and miserable, just like the lads. I have done most jobs from chief cook and bottle washer to bayonet. I haven't always been good at the things I've done. In most cases the only thing that kept me going was my god damn bloody mindedness. I would not be the first to quit. Someone would always quit before me.

I would not demean the SF by trying to become a part of it. It was hard enough day to day on exercise trying to go to the toilet without shitting into a plastic bag (unless you are really into that).

Women have achieved much in the military and I am proud to have been part of it.

http://www.gendergap.com/military/usmil.htm

[HavocIRL]

I'm not saying change overnight and have women in all aspects of the military and I'm not saying ban them from joining military but give them the choice and let them prove themselves.

[Dave.Mil]

The problem with allowing choice is cost the courses cost money if you allow x number of women to "have a go" that means x number of men (who in all probability would have a better chance of passing) have to wait.

Then as proved by recent cases such as the RAF pilot you spend in her case a substantial sum of money training her then get an almost nil return on the training.

The Canadian experiment was very interesting as the only women to pass later left as she was the only one in the unit.

It's horses for courses, women have proved to be extremely good in some specialised roles, but SF combat roles are not one of them.

[HavocIRL]

Congratulations you've convinced me to change my mind.

[bootneck]

Congratulations you've convinced me to change my mind.

but you won`t get me to change mine! and thats with regards to your avatar, i still prefer JulesB`s.

[sneaky beaky]

I still stand by my original statement. Although the men in the team would defend each other, they don't have the added complication of having a female on the team who might just be in love with one of the male members. ( And vice - versa!). While we all "love" our mates. We don't want to screw them.
Think about it.
Sneaky.
And I still love females!!

[El Prez]

While we all "love" our mates. We don't want to screw them

.
Says who? Artist has been re-reamed just for the Nantwich PU; if he says otherwise it'll just be bluster. He has history, a full 13 pages of it.

[bootneck]

And I still love females!!

But do they still Luurrve you Sneaky?

[anglo-saxon]

I have to confess that I'm not big into the equality thing when it comes to combat arms. This is for a couple of reasons:

First and foremost because it has been forced by the commissars of political correctness. They started the whole quota thing that cost millions of dollars of taxpayer's money that should have gone to training soldiers. Why force something that is going to be largely doomed to failure? Our recruiting system is still working the PC angle and we get saddled with these females who (bless 'em) have the best intentions. They just haven't been educated as to the way things really are. So, even if they pass their basic recruit training and basic infantry courses, they arrive at the unit without a clue as to what it is really like. They are certainly not treated any differently and, as a consequence, they thunder-in hard pretty damned quick. It is the exceptional female, I would say, who can keep up with the lads in the infantry, let alone SF. It's no good being completely knackered after a day or two of FIBUA or A to C, when there's a whole bunch more to come yet.

The second thing is the distraction element. When troops are living in trenches, they fight from them, eat in them, wash in them, crap in plastic bags in them. There is no privacy. In winter warfare, in a ten-man tent, it can get pretty damned "cosey". You're brewing up while the guy next to you is washing his nuts. No problem. Now, let's add a female to the mix. The troops aren't robots. First time a fem dropped her grollies for some personal admin, I'm thinking there might be an, um, awkward silence. Now transfer that situation to a four-man OP. Again, the troops aren't robots. However you cut it, there are situations where having a female in the mix is just inappropriate.

[Noz]

Come on AS. At the end of the day who would you rather basha up with. Big hairy arsed bloke or nice young lady who can do the job. I'd rather be found cuddling the hairy arsed bloke

[bootneck]

I'd rather be found cuddling the hairy arsed bloke

As it happens Noz, i just happen to have the said part of the anatomy

[sneaky beaky]

Noz
You have really just emphasised my point. Of course I would prefer to cuddle up to the lovely arse of a "nice young lady" rather then that of a "big hairy arsed marine." But would I want to get out of the "pit", to go and fight? Or would I rather stay there and do what comes naturally?
Sneaky