Para's Refused To Go Into Action

[Tab]

Cheap bullets put lives of paratroopers at risk
By Thomas Harding, Defence Correspondent
Last Updated: 2:27am GMT 23/11/2006



Video: Machine gun problems in Afghanistan
The lives of paratroopers were put in danger after the Ministry of Defence sent defective ammunition to Afghanistan, it can be revealed.


Two paratroopers battle to keep their gun firing


The situation became so serious that a platoon from the 3Bn The Parachute Regiment refused to go out on patrol until the problem was resolved. The troops had to borrow ammunition off Canadian and American special forces as they battled to fight off Taliban attacks.

The MoD, which yesterday unveiled plans for British troops to make a quicker-than-expected withdrawal from the front line in Iraq, has been unable to explain why defective ammunition for the .50 calibre Browning heavy machinegun was sent to Afghanistan.

It is thought that the batch was from either Pakistan or the Czech Republic, where a round costs 60 US cents. The price for British, Canadian or American ammunition is $1.50. With many thousands of rounds fired, using cheaper ammunition would have saved thousands of pounds.

A shocking demonstration of the poor quality rounds is shown on a video posted by a paratrooper on the YouTube website. It shows two soldiers in a sandbagged position struggling to operate the machinegun, which can also be mounted on Land Rovers.

advertisementOne is shown constantly re-cocking the weapon as his colleague seeks to feed through the ammunition belt. At one point, the Para, who becomes exhausted with the strain of constantly pulling the cocking handle, drops the gun and swears in frustration. All the time incoming enemy fire can be heard.

The Browning has given troops in Afghanistan a boost in terms of firepower. It fires 550 rounds per minute and they can penetrate buildings and lightly-armoured vehicles.

It is thought that the defective ammunition was designed to fit the Russian-made DsHk 12.7mm heavy machinegun. The bullets are cut with less precision, leading to stoppages when fired from the Browning.

A Parachute Regiment officer involved in the fighting said: "The ammo we had was rubbish. It just kept jamming. At one point we refused to go out because it was so bad. Eventually we managed to scrounge some Canadian rounds.

"If we had not got that ammo we would certainly have lost a lot of people."

After the protest, senior technical officers tested five different batches of ammunition. They were all defective.

The Paras obtained ammunition from the Canadians and Americans and it was only when British special forces became involved that the situation was resolved. Rounds were bought from Canadian stocks in Afghanistan. "They refused to believe it was all crap until special forces got involved," the Para said. "After that we had the new stuff within a week."

An MoD spokesman said: "There are no current problems with this ammunition.".

[Alfa]

Here's the link to the original article for those of you who want to see the video for yourselves:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jh ... ammo23.xml

When is the MOD going to realise that these money saving ideas never actually save money, all they do is force them to pay twice for things; once for the cheap stuff and then the second time to buy the stuff they should have bought in the first place.

[Mr_Kiwi]

Watch the video and then read that lovely little line from MOD... 'There are no current problems with this ammunition'

I'm still in training to get over to england to start actual training but this is ridiculous! They're trying to save money by putting peoples life in danager. You'd think somewhere along the lines someone would have said 'hey, why not just stick with the good ammo rather then getting stuff that might not work' or at least have some sort of moral that made them think about what they were doing.

[Greenronnie]

That article is spot-on. The Brit .50 Cal ammo was absolutely useless. It was firing one round at a time and giving you a stoppage each time. Anyone that has used a .50 will tell you it's not much fun trying to clear a stoppage on that weapon, it can be a bitch to cock. We got hold of some Canadian stuff early on and it worked great. The worst problem was that the 'higher-ups' decided there was no problem with the ammo and refused to believe the blokes on the ground.

[SO19]

I saw that video on you tube a while back and did think to myself what the f*ck was going on with all the stoppages. The sad part is the Governmen/MoD knew exactly what they were doing when they bought this stuff and clearly decided that money saved was more important than supplying any well made stocks. Poorly made ammunition is shite in anything other than those handful of weapons that can handle it and of which it was primarily manufactured for.

[ArmyBrat]

its stuff like this that makes me think that if conscription or a draft was bought back in, then they would kick there arses into gear and buy the right stuff cuz they would not want there children to go through this stuff!

if only the MoD listened to the troops!

[Tab]

Army Brat, what makes you think that their children would wind up on the front line if conscription was brought back

[ArmyBrat]

well it would change the perspective on things, because the goverment might listen to how things are done when there own kids are saying about it!

i am not sayin its the ideal situation, but it could possibly help the situation!

[HCR]

Armybrat said

its stuff like this that makes me think that if conscription or a draft was bought back in, then they would kick there arses into gear and buy the right stuff cuz they would not want there children to go through this stuff!

Probably make things worse. There kids would more than likely be in a unit that keeps them out of Arms way. And then whenever anyone ever criticised the politicians about lack of support for our Troops they could just turn arround and say "well my son/daughter is out there"

Saying that there are afew of them who are ex military, mainly from the Tories

[Greenronnie]

well it would change the perspective on things, because the goverment might listen to how things are done when there own kids are saying about it!

I think you've missed Tab's point there fella. He was saying that important people's sons don't go to war.

[81mm]

greenronnie, what was the pathfinders role ? were you tasked as an additional rifle platoon, or were you doing your own thing, sun bathing etc, who did you answer to ? or were you independent . also whats the posibility of viewing the vid that you made, im ex 3 para mortars for my sins.

[Paratrooper01]

im ex 3 para mortars for my sins.

Get ya cock out!

[HCR]

What is it with Mortars Platoons. It aint just 3Paras but every Infantry Regiments Mortars are not to be trusted if your ever in the showers with them.

When I was at FOB Price I had to go and find one of the 3 Para Snipers. They lived in the same POD as 3 Para Mortars, and I saw inside there accomadation. I wont say anymore.

The Fusiliers Mortars were just as bad, they loved the c*ck and each others vomit. But they had been on that hill for sometime.

[GreyWing]

bit of point, but maybe drafting the odd politicians son into the front line might get a better result.

[Tab]

GreyWing It may be a good idea but can you honestly think it would happen, every single one would suddenly find them selfs in a reserve occupation which would stop them from being called up, and if any did fall through the net I would lay odds that they would wind up working for the MoD in some form or other