Breaking News: Chechen leader dead.

[exgreenjacket]

General Shamil Basyev has been killed by Russian troops in Chechnya. No details available yet.

Could this signify the beginning of the end of the Jihad in Chechnya?

[Sarastro]

I highly doubt it.

1. Chechnyan conflict is much more about national sovereignty & anti-Russian sentiment than Islamic fundamentalism, no matter how Putin tries to spin it.

2. Chechnyans have gone through several leaders during the conflict, another one will always appear.

Russia has about as much chance of winning in Chechnya as they did in Afghanistan.

[SO19]

Chechen warlord Basayev 'killed'

The most wanted Chechen rebel warlord, Shamil Basayev, has been killed, Russian media report.

Basayev was killed in a special operation overnight in Ingushetia, near Chechnya, Russia's FSB security service chief Nikolai Patrushev said.

President Vladimir Putin said Basayev's killing was "deserved retribution" for terror attacks, including the 2004 mass hostage-taking at a school in Beslan.

Basayev, a key Chechen rebel commander, led many major attacks against Russia.

The September 2004 attack on a school in Beslan, in the North Caucasus, led to at least 331 deaths. It triggered outrage in Russia and other countries, as many women and children were among the victims.

The reported death of Basayev has not yet been confirmed by Chechen rebel sources.

The BBC's Damian Grammaticas in Moscow says Basayev has been top of Russia's most wanted list for a long time.

Mr Patrushev was quoted as saying Basayev was among a group of militants killed as they prepared to carry out a "terrorist act" in Ingushetia, which borders on Chechnya.

Resistance role

Russia had previously offered a reward of $10m (£6m) for the capture of Basayev.

He claimed responsibility for masterminding the Beslan raid, but blamed the children's deaths on Russian forces, who stormed the school to end the siege.

Basayev led the first mass hostage-taking by Chechen rebels - in the southern Russian town of Budyonnovsk in 1995. He also claimed to have organised the assault on a Moscow theatre in 2002, during which 129 people died.

He was a key commander of the resistance after Russian forces invaded Chechnya at the end of 1994.

When Russia was forced to withdraw its forces after the first Chechen war ended in 1996, Basayev stood for president, but came second to Aslan Maskhadov - the more moderate separatist leader killed by Russian troops in March 2005.

Basayev also served briefly as prime minister in the self-proclaimed independent Chechen republic of Ichkeria in 1997.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5165456.stm

[exgreenjacket]

I thought that people like Basayev hijacked the Chechen cause and the struggle for independence became less important than the Jihad. Im no expert on the subject, and I know some of the tactics used by the Russians are deplorable, but I think Basayev in particular did Chechnya more harm than good because there is now so little sympathy for them Internationally.

[harry hackedoff]

On the other hand, what a bastard Kermit didn`t dick the Spicks, hey?

That`s the problem with Chechniya, it`s just not sexy.
Russia has been allowed to get away with murder while the West mentions "Chechen Rebels, "whoever the fork they are.
Poke the islamic tossers, my sympathies are with the ordinary people caught up in this shite.
Same as the Palestinians really. The spoilt child of the Western world is allowed to behave worse than the Third Reich on their world tour, and we are all expected to say" oh, but that poor Israeli Corporal" Fark the lot of them I say. What about the poor Palestinians? Or the poor Chechens?
Look beyond the news and see it from the other side.
The Isrealis and Ivan are bang out of order and the way the rest of the world ignores these facts is deplorable. It sucks.

[Tab]

Still, one less to worry about.

[exgreenjacket]

Still, one less to worry about.

True.

No matter what our Political views are, this fella has had it coming for a long time.

[myss]

Still, one less to worry about.

True.

No matter what our Political views are, this fella has had it coming for a long time.

My sentiments exactly; one down, hope more to follow.

[Whitey]

Death to the Soviet Union and their ideology.

Israel, you are correct, they are allowed a free pass on brutality because uncle Adolf killed them in camps. But let some Americans put underwear on prisoners heads often even under the direction of the Izz and our troops and country are the Devil. Personally I'm tired of the US fighting in Bolshevik wars and after every war socialism at home pushed a bit harder and global communism more and more a reality.

Ronald Regan told me as a kid the Russians were my sworn enemy. I am no friend of the Checheyans, but if they are killing communists, then let them both go at it and may he best man win the contest.

Russia will always be the enemy of the west. And Israel will always plunge us into no win wars attempting to expand greater Israel. We are all military men, go ahead and deny that our invasion of Iraq didn't divert Arab extremist forces away from Israel.

Anyway to hell with the Soviets and yes they still are soviets.

[SO19]

мать Россия!

[Whitey]

So SO19, you have sympathies for the enemy?

I HATE, yes hate the Russians. I remember the sirens going off as a kid, being led to the school basements with radiation shelter signs marking the way because of them.

Movies like the morning after, fearing global nuclear war, thinking as a kid how it could all be over after a launch.

Their vows to bury us, them trying to put missiles in Cuba, our troops killed in South America by Russian trained forces, our troops tortured in Vietnam by Russian advisors, yes Son Tay.

So piss on Mother Russia, the Big Bear, the Evil Empire. Their ideals have not changed, they just went broke.

They are not an allie, what fool would make friends with a snake?

Have fun New World Bolshevik Hessian, but me, Better dead than Red isw what I say.

[Sarastro]

Hookay, I'm not quite as far gone as Whitey, but think it's bloody obvious (and has been for many years) that Putin is a dyed-in-the-wool old Soviet who is rather smartly bringing back de facto dictatorship to Russia and parts of the Bloc. That Bush and assorted idiots have either allowed this in return for support on terrorism, or been outmaneuvered by Putin (ie this news strike anyone as really good timing to shift G8 focus away from Russian anti-democracy and onto Islamic terrorism?), or simply misjudged him (Bush looking into Putin's soul, anyone?), is not a good thing at all.

It's just about possible, what with China-Russia alliances growing in international forums, that the current appeasement of Putin & Russia will, a decade down the line, be seen in the same light as placating 1930's Germany, arming the Taleban & Islamic fundamentalists in the 1980's, etc etc.

But as far as Chechnya goes, the West never really had a leg to stand on telling Russia to butt out, given their own operations in Afghanistan, Iraq and so on, and they knew it. So on goes the bloody play, smiles over the table and crossed fingers under it all round.

[Frank S.]

Shamil Basyev strikes one as a... how do you say... P.O.S.
As well, one could argue, Putin is much like the yellow dude in "Sin City".

Ahem. Pick your vice or summat...

[SO19]

I HATE, yes hate the Russians. I remember the sirens going off as a kid, being led to the school basements with radiation shelter signs marking the way because of them.

I agree with the threat, there were many needless provocations by the USSR during the cold war that escelated the already extremely high tensions, but it's naive to think it was only ever one sided, everyone played their part during those years, for better or worse. Those days are of course over and while some people will say were now in a new era of cold war, those days were historically unique.

Once KGB and FSB, Vladimir Putin is obviously a proud Russian and naturally wants to rekindle some of the power that the Soviet Union once had. I disagree though that he wants to turn the clock back. Socially, modern Russia will never revert to the way it was, it has changed too much in the last 15 years for that to happen.

I think our role is not as back in the Soviet Union to provide a counterbalance to the United States. We won't slide into that position however anybody would want that.

We will be campaigning for a multilateral world - multi polar world if you will - that would take into account the interests of a vast majority of parties to the global dialogue, including such forums as the G8. - Vladimir Putin

It's obvious Putin wants to regain some major international clout, but I'm guessing it won't be in the way your fearing.

Anyway, I'm in it for the women mate.

[Whitey]

To his credit Churchill knew what Stalin was, he even warned FDR about him and said it was a shame that the Russian people would have to live under the regime Stalin was creating.

Both sides played dirty, but dirty or not I live here and I remember growing up in a world where our lives were hinged on the mercy of two leaders, had they both ever become belligerent at the same time, we'd be dead.

Not to mention I lived near a missile site as I understand now.

Chechenya is a Russian problem, had they not been so brutal to those people in the past perhaps things wouldn't be to the point they are.

Same as us to some degree. We pissed on the Jawas and supported Israel blindly until they gave us a wake up call. Now out of principle we can't back down or make peace, but we'd stuck our nose in their business because of our oil interests and Israel bribing our politicians with campaign contribitions until they slammed the door in our face.

Maybe if we as people treated one another a bit better none of this in Russia or the US would have ever happened, but oh well.

I still remember being told in class by social studies teachers that me and many of my classmates would probably die in Europe fighting the Ivans, the Reds, the Ruskies.

And I'm sure had they not broke the bank that might have become true.
Putin is a thug and absolutely, Bush will look the otheway as long as the thug will pledge to join his coalition of the willing on paper atleast to sell the war to Americans fed up with no real progress.

Good for the Russians, maybe tey can kill OBL for us? Oh, that's right the extracted key Taliban leaders from the Shikot Valley.

f@#k Russia. So you like the Russian women? Well good for you, western women have become such bitches at times I can't sa I blame you.