Officer, Soldier, Military career and life.

[DETRITUS]

Hi again,
I have been re-reading the career options for the army, my initial thoughts were of AAC Soldier, I am still quite keen on this.
But I am curious as to what kind of career options Soldiering involves, let me explain-
It seems to me that the higher one gets in the ranks the more responsibility and leadership there is, does a corporal do all the same work that a private does? Do they do more leadership work and delegate instead? What?

Do many soldiers WANT to progress up to sargeant and above or are they content, even prefer being lower rank?? (Personally I thought for a long time that if I got in as a soldier I would like to get to Corporal or sergeant). Thing is, according to army info it seems that the higher one gets the less hands-on work they do and conversley the more administration and paperwork there is. Is this so? (I quite like hands-on work..)

If it is the case that most want to gain a higher rank then would most want to just start out as an officer if they had the option?

I would really like to know. Thankyou.

[Piccadilly Cowboy]

Hi there.

My two cents.....I joined as a Trooper, got to Lance Corporal then went off to Sandhurst for Officer training, so I've done the Private work, the NCO work and the Officer work too.

When I joined up, I wanted to be a lifer. I was happy to move through the ranks and if I didn't go to Sandhurst I was quite happy, at that time, to go through the NCO ranks. I found that as soon as you get through basic you tend to get more responsibilty. Even in basic, you get some. You could be duty student and only been in the Army for 2 weeks. So, the responsibilty kicks off as soon as you join up. The old days of "you're not paid to think" are long gone. I know 15 year Privates who have more say and more power than a lot of Officers.

You still get to do the "hands on" work, but obviously the higher you go up the ladder, the more responsibilty you will get, in both personnel and logistics.

I wouldn't be TOO worried about this in all honesty. If you're young now, your opinion will soon change as you get older. I'm not meaning to sound patronising here, it's just a fact of life. Saying that, a lot of people as they get older don't want the responsibilty and that is why they are quite happy to remain in the lower ranks.

It all depends really on the amount of time that you want to stay in and the sort of job you get. RMP's for example get promoted as soon as they pass their basic police course. Straight into the dizzy world of being an NCO. Scary huh?

If you want to be a lifer and want a decent trade, then expect to get promotion. Turning down promotion can be VERY damaging to your future career.

I wouldn't worry too much about promotion/responsibilty/etc at the moment, that's a little way off. Just think about what you want in the near future. What trade you want, what regt/corps you want to go to/where you would like to be posted. Then leave the responsibilty for another day, there's plenty of time for that.

Hope that makes sense.

[DETRITUS]

Yes it makes sense, that was great thankyou for the input.
I am not that young, (25), I have had this struggle regarding what I would liek to do for a couple of years, I cannot decide if I want to try for officer or try for AAC Soldier.
I thought about trying as Officer as AAC pilot- but in reality I know how tough selection is and my eyesight I feel may let me down as I think I might be a little under minimum.
Othertimes though I feel that going the enlisted route may be better because I feel that the team is something I really want to be a part of. (I guess I am anxious incase being an officer causes a divide into some sort of "us and them" mentality, also I like hands on work as I said.
If I did try for Officer I think that I would end up doing something totally different to AAC since pilot is a slim chance.

I guess I need more input and to hear more from the real deal such as yourself to make an informed decison.

Your input is more appreciated than you may imagine, especially being present day.

Thankyou.

[Piccadilly Cowboy]

Hey, not a problem at all!

There is a BIG divide between officers and men. Espeicially when you are in basic, whether it be at an ATR or at Sandhurst.

As I went from being a ranker of 8 years to an Officer, I found the change quite strange. Always being called "Sir", even when you were being beasted on PT. (VERY odd feeling, lol), being punished if you swore, etc.

The main difference, I would say, is the way that you are expected to think and act. The phrase "not very officer-like" would encompass the whole thing I guess. Shouting is "not very officer-like", reading The Sun newspaper is deemed "not very officer-like", etc.

It takes a lot of time to earn respect as both a soldier and an officer, we all know the stories of 2/Lt's passing straight out of Sandhurst and "trying" to tell a 22 yr RSM what to do. Ha ha ha!!!!

Realistically, you have until you are 28 to decide to go Sandhurst, but don't leave it that late.

You could always go for the Regular Commissioning Board "a 3 day test to see if you cut the mustard" and see what happens after that. If you do go for it, let me know and I will tell you exactly what is involved. I think I will remember RCB til the day I die.

Anything I can help out with, let me know. Good luck.

[Tab]

50 years ago we called our officers by their first name, leadership did not mean ordering people to the work but rolling up your selves and getting stuck in. When we were instructed to carry out duties every one joined in from officers to NCO's, there were times when other duties might call some of the officers away but on the whole we did every thing together. Also the men were expected to take up any leadership challenge that might arise rather than waiting for orders from above

[DETRITUS]

There is a BIG divide between officers and men. Espeicially when you are in basic, whether it be at an ATR or at Sandhurst.

Yeah, I wondered if there would be.

As I went from being a ranker of 8 years to an Officer, I found the change quite strange. Always being called "Sir", even when you were being beasted on PT. (VERY odd feeling, lol), being punished if you swore, etc.

What kind of things can a soldier and an officer get a beasting for?
I always found it odd that swearing was punishable, but I understand the reasoning behind it.
What happens if you swear or do other things deemed "un-officer like" or indeed as a soldier?

The main difference, I would say, is the way that you are expected to think and act. The phrase "not very officer-like" would encompass the whole thing I guess. Shouting is "not very officer-like", reading The Sun newspaper is deemed "not very officer-like", etc.

So an officer is expected to not shout? So how does it work? An Officer stands by whilst the Sergeant or other NCO shouts the men into order and then the Officer adresses them at speach level? Where does the officer go when not adressing the men and NCO`s?

It takes a lot of time to earn respect as both a soldier and an officer, we all know the stories of 2/Lt's passing straight out of Sandhurst and "trying" to tell a 22 yr RSM what to do. Ha ha ha!!!!

Even I know about that, besides the military stories this type of thing is played up a lot in almost any film I have seen taht has a significant military presence (Aliens for example)
To be honest I consider myself to be quite reasonable at earning respect given time, it`s like anywhere I work I will generally go out of my way to meet everyone I work with, talk with them and get to know and understand them. There is always room for self improvement ovcourse, but I feel my foundation for such things is in place.
One of the main issues I have is wether I would be happy being an authority figure, especially next to men with much experience! It seems like an awkward place to be, initially at least.
This is why sometimes Corporal appeals to me, since I would have some authority and responsibility, yet I would still be one of the men.
Truly I am torn with what to go for.

Realistically, you have until you are 28 to decide to go Sandhurst, but don't leave it that late.

Ok, I actually tried to enlist in February, passed the first fit test at the ACIO but was rejected on medical grounds- the reasonings are poor and I am in the process of appealing against the decision as suggested by teh army themselves, they did tell me it was a slim chance but I am optimistic. I have however picked up a running injury in the meantime which seems to be tight outer thigh muscles pulling on my knee joint causing pain, I am seeing a physio regularly to stretch it out and gradually fix it. (I hope it is as straight forward as it seems) They tell me it can take a while to fix but isn`t permanent.
I am tired of stupid jobs that pay little, I really want a career, something I can get stuck into and learn and experience and all the rest.
At about the same time as trying to enlist I also sent my interest form off for Officer, I have since been posted a reminder and must reply within perhaps two more weeks to let them know I am still interested some 6 months later.

You could always go for the Regular Commissioning Board "a 3 day test to see if you cut the mustard" and see what happens after that. If you do go for it, let me know and I will tell you exactly what is involved. I think I will remember RCB til the day I die.

Yeah, I will let you know if it works out this way.
So what is it? Does one do this an a Soldier or a civilian? Is it something done straight away to see if an Officer career is right?

Anything I can help out with, let me know. Good luck.

Thankyou, it is appreciated.

[DETRITUS]

50 years ago we called our officers by their first name, leadership did not mean ordering people to the work but rolling up your selves and getting stuck in. When we were instructed to carry out duties every one joined in from officers to NCO's, there were times when other duties might call some of the officers away but on the whole we did every thing together. Also the men were expected to take up any leadership challenge that might arise rather than waiting for orders from above

I always wondered how it actually worked. I have only been able to piece together some things from films and the occasional British military documentary but even then they don`t really touch on the day to day way it is organised. I understand that these things are taught in the preliminary stages of enlisting but for a civilian it is frustrating.

[Piccadilly Cowboy]

What kind of things can a soldier and an officer get a beasting for?
I always found it odd that swearing was punishable, but I understand the reasoning behind it.
What happens if you swear or do other things deemed "un-officer like" or indeed as a soldier?

The beasting as an officer were solely in training at Sandhurst, during PT. Happens to us all, officer or ranker.

So an officer is expected to not shout? So how does it work? An Officer stands by whilst the Sergeant or other NCO shouts the men into order and then the Officer adresses them at speach level? Where does the officer go when not adressing the men and NCO`s?

Absolutely spot-on. An officer shouldn't have to shout, that's what NCO's are for! Though the Para guys on the forum would probably disagree. Have known some Airborne Officers that were as loud as the soldiers

One of the main issues I have is wether I would be happy being an authority figure, especially next to men with much experience! It seems like an awkward place to be, initially at least.
This is why sometimes Corporal appeals to me, since I would have some authority and responsibility, yet I would still be one of the men.
Truly I am torn with what to go for.

It's tough being a young officer trying to earn the respect of your soldiers, but you do this by being professional, fair, understanding and above all hard-working. Simple as that!

Ok, I actually tried to enlist in February, passed the first fit test at the ACIO but was rejected on medical grounds

My advise, don't join up with an injury. Wait until it gets better. Officer or ranker. This is one of the main reasons why people fail basic, due to injury!!!!!!

Yeah, I will let you know if it works out this way.
So what is it? Does one do this an a Soldier or a civilian? Is it something done straight away to see if an Officer career is right?

With respect to the RCB briefing and the 3 day RCB itself...

The briefing is a one day "beat-up" for the main RCB. They go through the sort of thing that you do on the main RCB and give pointers along the way.

The sort of thing to expect is....

A physical assault course, most of it indoors, where you have to attempt and complete various tasks. Normal sort of thing, climbing an 8 ft wall, sprint 100 m, walk along a narrow beam, etc. For this, attempt EVERYTHING and give it 100%, even if you find it easy, make it out that you are working really hard. They want to see bags of effort for this bit.

A map reading, mission-related thingy. Where you get a problem like "you and your team are stranded at point a, with a bag containing yadda, yadda, yadda. Youre mate has a broken leg and you must get to the camp by 2100hrs due to a landrover leaving there." That sort of thing. You then, as a group (of about 5 or 6) come up with a master plan. You are then tested on the plan individually. They important thing with this is speed/time/distance. They will ask questions like "how long will it take you to get to point B". Now for this, and im not exagerating, expect the worst. I'm talking Gestapo style. Now I'm not trying to scare you, but it's better to be prepared. I had 2 girls in my group and they both starting crying. They really dig at you and want to see how you act under pressure. This is probably the toughest part of the RCB. It was for me because I'm not hot on mental arithmetic. Practice before you go!!!!!

An essay, normally on a defence subject, like the UN, NATO or something. It's about an hour long. I quite enjoyed this bit. Not hard.

A 5 minute presentation to the rest of the group on a subject that you choose with the instructor. One of the group did "sex life of a ping-pong ball", very funny, but you only have about 2 mins to come up with the content of the presentation. It's all about thinking on your feet.

A command task. Outside. In groups. You get a brief on the sort of thing you have to do. EG "You are in a minefield, shown on the ground with mine-tape, you have 3 barrells and 2 planks, and must get your team across in 10 mins without touching the ground." Each person gets a go at being in command. It's all about taking control and thinking logically.

After the RCB brief, you get interviewd on why you want to be an officer. Typical questions, "What would you do if you dont get through" "What regt do you want to be in and why?"

After all this you get a grade, 1 to 4

1 is straight to the 3 day RCB, 4 is a fail, 3 is a fail but invited to come back in 6 months time. 2 is what I got. If you get a 2, then you have to go away and come back in a month. I was a serving soldier at this point and rankers go to Worthy Down near Winchester and do a PODC, potential officers development course. Basically a "knife, fork and spoon" course, wher eyou get to learn about officer life and is more of a "pre rcb" beat up course for a month.

Then, comes the main RCB, same sort of thing but for 3 days and you get accommodated over the time. It's tough, absolutly no doubt about it. Give it all you have. Dont be afraid to talk above someone else in discussions, just get your point across. If you show no evidence of your ability then they have nothing to judge you on.


Hope that helps!

[Tam527]

Detritus,
I think we've spoke before on here, and you still seem well-determined to join up. Which is a good start.
My question:
Is it just being an Army officer/soldier you are considering, or maybe another branch of the Services? I think the upper age limit for the RN is 32,depending on specialisation, giving you time to overcome your injury.Just a thought.
Another thing to remember is that, in general, Officers are expected to do everything the men do, only better and faster, regardless of arm. But obviously especially in Para Reg, RM.

Tam.

[DETRITUS]

Piccadilly Cowboy, yeah, that does help.
Hmm, really dog eat dog sounding.

What are the best ways to deal with beastings and when you are being tested on things when they are being Gestapo?

Hmm, lots to think about.
Did you know a lot about NATO already to do the written piece?

Sometimes I am very quick witted and fast on my feet, other times I am quite slow, like mental block.

What are good tasks to pratice with as a civilian? Should I grab a few friends and do something like that point A to B thing? (Maybe half could do the test and the other half to respond to it and switch after)
How would I set up the question/ tasks?





Tam527,
Yes we spoke before, I am nervous and anxious about it all, but overall I think it would be a hell of a career.
At the moment it is specifically army Soldier and army Officer that I am considering. I have looked at other branches such as RN and RAF, but am unsure. I mean I love the expanse of the Seas and some jobs look like they would be fun (responsibility and beastings as part of it ovcourse) but I look on RN as a possible third choice.
As for RAF, I almost did at 18 but it doesn`t look as uh, varied as army life.
Ovcourse this is one of my frustrations.. how does one choose a path when one knows very little about real day to day workings of any career?! Thats one of the reasons why these replies are so helpful.

[Piccadilly Cowboy]

Hmm, really dog eat dog sounding.

If you want it, and want it real bad, then you will do all things necessary to get it!

What are the best ways to deal with beastings and when you are being tested on things when they are being Gestapo?

Best way to deal with beastings? Just get on with it, never complain, never cry, just imagine that one day you may be doing it to someone else! And the Gestapo-style grilling? You're more prepared than I was when I did it, I didn't know that that was the way that they did it, so you are aware that it happens. Just stay calm, and even when they scream at you to hurry up with an answer, take your time and stay chilled! Think before you say anything.

Did you know a lot about NATO already to do the written piece?

Not really, I read a few books and read the papers, always read the broadsheets, because a lot of the things that will come up in the discussions will be on current affairs.

What are good tasks to pratice with as a civilian? Should I grab a few friends and do something like that point A to B thing? (Maybe half could do the test and the other half to respond to it and switch after)

Yes, this is a very good idea. Even if just to get used to talking in front of other people when under pressure!