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Restorative Justice
That's it mate - leave me on my Jack Jones
I'd thought of doing the same and for exactly the same reasons (which remind me too much of why I left the Corps in the first place) but I think my posting will be limited in future. It was only having such a great time on the yomp and meeting such great people that has kept me with it up till now, and also meeting some good eggs generally on the forum. Don't sign off though mate, keep in touch. I have to dash now but I'll be in touch Monday mate. And yes we should 'do lunch' soon dahhhling 
Per Flank, Per Tank
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harry hackedoff
- Member

- Posts: 14415
- Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am
I couldn`t be arsed with this topic so haven`t joined(we`ve been there before) I have followed the "arguements" and have to say that I`m in agreement with Gash`s point.
For the sake of harmony, can we not simply agree to differ. Horse, dead and flog, spring rapidly to mind.
Aye, Harry
I may or may not agree with a point of view, but when the "arguement" causes the obvious level of frustration that this one has, I have to ask you, is it any wonder that regular posters are leaving this forum in droves?It seems that no matter how well a point is argued/reasoned some are just not willing to entertain the fact that there may be a way other than their own personal view on things.
For the sake of harmony, can we not simply agree to differ. Horse, dead and flog, spring rapidly to mind.
Aye, Harry
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harry hackedoff
- Member

- Posts: 14415
- Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am
Gash
You're absolutely right. But the point of this forum is that it doesn't have a point! There are plenty of illogical, ill-thought out arguments (none of mine, of course) but I think they are the price we have to pay if we want to have some banter with (a fair few) like-minded individuals.
I can't quite relate to the reference to SNCO's so probably haven't read the threads you're referring to. Or, if I did, didn't see them in the same light.
At the end of the day (I really must stop using that blasted phrase!
) whatever this forum is, it ain't a place where you can have a serious debate on important issues. It's all just a bit of fun isn't it? The one thing I do seriously object to is personal abuse. Even in anonymous forums there's no place for it.
Sorry to see you go but I intend to carry on reading - and posting -remembering what this form of communication really is about. It certainly shouldn't be taken too seriously at any level or, even seriously at all.
Mind you I'd leave too, but I don't have any 'friends' you see!??

You're absolutely right. But the point of this forum is that it doesn't have a point! There are plenty of illogical, ill-thought out arguments (none of mine, of course) but I think they are the price we have to pay if we want to have some banter with (a fair few) like-minded individuals.
I can't quite relate to the reference to SNCO's so probably haven't read the threads you're referring to. Or, if I did, didn't see them in the same light.
At the end of the day (I really must stop using that blasted phrase!
Sorry to see you go but I intend to carry on reading - and posting -remembering what this form of communication really is about. It certainly shouldn't be taken too seriously at any level or, even seriously at all.
Mind you I'd leave too, but I don't have any 'friends' you see!??
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harry hackedoff
- Member

- Posts: 14415
- Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am
Who needs the World as your Oyster,When you've had the world as your cap Badge
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Frank S.
- Guest

I just read the first post and following replies again. It makes me wonder: could the problem be in part due to a lack of cohesion between the judiciary, the legislative and the executive branches of government?
In the States and elsewhere, for instance, what happens when the president and congress are from different parties the result is often paralysis and filibusters. It takes the form of one 'camp' sharpshooting the other in order to
1 - block their general agenda
2 - impact the public negatively so as to gain the upper hand next election.
This is a bit obscure. I'll clarify: if a 'liberal/progressive' (so called) legislative body wants to oust a 'conservative' (so called) executive, can they not pass laws contrary to the executive's agenda in the hopes to get it out of office, by putting pressure on the public?
We recently had such a situation between Democrats and Republicans during the current budgetary crisis in California.
With regards to the death penalty, it gets trickier for me. I cannot trust the State with it, nor can I trust the State to recognize my individual right to defend myself and my property. There are a few (no idea how many) people on death row here, who are not guilty of the crime(s) they are accused of. This certainly does not mean they are innocent people as the driven snow, but it means that the real culprit(s) is/are not behind bars.
Every once in a while some such person goes free after being exculpated and having spent a few years on the row.
How many of those have already been executed, who knows.
Where I am 'stuck' is the question of 'what to do about bringing fairness and efficiency to the judiciary system'. Many times have I felt that some perpetrator of a particularly heinous crime should be executed summarily. But in my case at least, it's part of a larger fear. Looking back to olden days (in my case an over simplification: I'm thirty-eight) when I thought I could make some sense of things.
One way to put it: it is now 2003 and instead of flying cars, we have new diseases. The way in which I deal with people is more and more impersonal: either via the internet or, when at work, via company e-mail. I ride in elevators with people whose name I do not know, yet converse with daily by e-mail on work issues. They are strangers and their face unknown. As well, I do not work for people, but for machines and networks whose demands for service are immediate (my pager and cell-phone ring any time day or night) and there is no delaying, reasoning or making excuses...
The future looks much bleaker now than before, and to quote a movie line 'the present is trivia'. I sometimes long for the old rotary phones of black bakelite, before programmable portable phones you have to dial with the tip of a pen, the pad being so small. And I long for swift, hard justice, the kind I used to think existed.
This was all still a bit obscure and off topic, must be all the existentialist horse puckey I was fed as a kid....

In the States and elsewhere, for instance, what happens when the president and congress are from different parties the result is often paralysis and filibusters. It takes the form of one 'camp' sharpshooting the other in order to
1 - block their general agenda
2 - impact the public negatively so as to gain the upper hand next election.
This is a bit obscure. I'll clarify: if a 'liberal/progressive' (so called) legislative body wants to oust a 'conservative' (so called) executive, can they not pass laws contrary to the executive's agenda in the hopes to get it out of office, by putting pressure on the public?
We recently had such a situation between Democrats and Republicans during the current budgetary crisis in California.
With regards to the death penalty, it gets trickier for me. I cannot trust the State with it, nor can I trust the State to recognize my individual right to defend myself and my property. There are a few (no idea how many) people on death row here, who are not guilty of the crime(s) they are accused of. This certainly does not mean they are innocent people as the driven snow, but it means that the real culprit(s) is/are not behind bars.
Every once in a while some such person goes free after being exculpated and having spent a few years on the row.
How many of those have already been executed, who knows.
Where I am 'stuck' is the question of 'what to do about bringing fairness and efficiency to the judiciary system'. Many times have I felt that some perpetrator of a particularly heinous crime should be executed summarily. But in my case at least, it's part of a larger fear. Looking back to olden days (in my case an over simplification: I'm thirty-eight) when I thought I could make some sense of things.
One way to put it: it is now 2003 and instead of flying cars, we have new diseases. The way in which I deal with people is more and more impersonal: either via the internet or, when at work, via company e-mail. I ride in elevators with people whose name I do not know, yet converse with daily by e-mail on work issues. They are strangers and their face unknown. As well, I do not work for people, but for machines and networks whose demands for service are immediate (my pager and cell-phone ring any time day or night) and there is no delaying, reasoning or making excuses...
The future looks much bleaker now than before, and to quote a movie line 'the present is trivia'. I sometimes long for the old rotary phones of black bakelite, before programmable portable phones you have to dial with the tip of a pen, the pad being so small. And I long for swift, hard justice, the kind I used to think existed.
This was all still a bit obscure and off topic, must be all the existentialist horse puckey I was fed as a kid....
OK guys, you win, I can't stand it any longer, I'm back,
However I have spent the weekend reviewing my stance on contributions to military forums.
Just to set the record straight I don't have any wish to have everyone agree with me, and I fully support the idea of differing view/opinions - that is what, after all, constitues a democracy (a process most of us have had an hand in safeguarding).
But the point at which a differing view turns into an opportunity to exert a diluted form of emotional blackmail infused with a large dose of condescendatory attitude was, for me, entirely unnecessary and served only to make me rethink my attitude to the forum.
The forum is entirely capable of continuing without me, or anyone else probably, I am after all a very small cog in an extreemly big machine.
On the point of members leaving, the change for this has to come from those contributors, who on corresponding with someone not aligned to their opinions, use it as an opportunity to reassess their own opinions and thoughts and not an opportunity to lambast people for nothing more than having a differing view - I don't think anyone on this forum expects everybody to agree with what they say or think but we all have the right to publish what we think without recourse to insinuation and insult.
I view contributors with differing views to me as this type of opportunity, and over the course of the last few months have developed a wider appreciation of subjects and views.
OK, my rant is over, I'm sticking my toe in the water again but this time I'm leaving my boots on in case it gets too hot.
P.S. Big thanks to all the support - I'm not naming you -you know who you all are
However I have spent the weekend reviewing my stance on contributions to military forums.
Just to set the record straight I don't have any wish to have everyone agree with me, and I fully support the idea of differing view/opinions - that is what, after all, constitues a democracy (a process most of us have had an hand in safeguarding).
But the point at which a differing view turns into an opportunity to exert a diluted form of emotional blackmail infused with a large dose of condescendatory attitude was, for me, entirely unnecessary and served only to make me rethink my attitude to the forum.
The forum is entirely capable of continuing without me, or anyone else probably, I am after all a very small cog in an extreemly big machine.
On the point of members leaving, the change for this has to come from those contributors, who on corresponding with someone not aligned to their opinions, use it as an opportunity to reassess their own opinions and thoughts and not an opportunity to lambast people for nothing more than having a differing view - I don't think anyone on this forum expects everybody to agree with what they say or think but we all have the right to publish what we think without recourse to insinuation and insult.
I view contributors with differing views to me as this type of opportunity, and over the course of the last few months have developed a wider appreciation of subjects and views.
OK, my rant is over, I'm sticking my toe in the water again but this time I'm leaving my boots on in case it gets too hot.
P.S. Big thanks to all the support - I'm not naming you -you know who you all are
Nuisance
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harry hackedoff
- Member

- Posts: 14415
- Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am
Wully,
My posts were not a personal dig at you, please don't take them that way. My posts were a reaction to a long running attitude I had noticed on this forum. The fact that your topic tipped me over the edge has nothing to do with you personally.
Anyway lets put this behind us and move on, its getting far too serious for a posting board.
Harry,
Truss is on its way back, I seem to have solied it though
My posts were not a personal dig at you, please don't take them that way. My posts were a reaction to a long running attitude I had noticed on this forum. The fact that your topic tipped me over the edge has nothing to do with you personally.
Anyway lets put this behind us and move on, its getting far too serious for a posting board.
Harry,
Truss is on its way back, I seem to have solied it though
Nuisance
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harry hackedoff
- Member

- Posts: 14415
- Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am
Gash, are you sure it was you
Are you sure it wasn`t your swampy mate, while you were in yer pit
I`d check the kettle and steam iron, if I was you
Aye,
Are you sure it wasn`t your swampy mate, while you were in yer pit
I`d check the kettle and steam iron, if I was you
Aye,
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Yeah, yeah, ok mate....but you haven't adressed the very pertinent points raised by Frank S
- where do you stand, come on we need to know.
Wully, the topic was fine but it seemed to turn quickly into a 'why I hate social workers, probation officers, limp wristed lefties....etc'. Gash can look after himself but a few posters who are the future of the Corps (no doubt Maverick can look after himself as well) seemed to have got a bit of a rough ride and a lack of respect. I (and I think Gash) would hate them to think that they're about to join an organisation where received opinions are the norm, where opinion is dressed up as fact and where what counts is not the thoughtfulness or quality of the argument but the 'right' the person has earned to say it. Of course the Corps is like that but let them find that out when it's too late - like I did
Wully, the topic was fine but it seemed to turn quickly into a 'why I hate social workers, probation officers, limp wristed lefties....etc'. Gash can look after himself but a few posters who are the future of the Corps (no doubt Maverick can look after himself as well) seemed to have got a bit of a rough ride and a lack of respect. I (and I think Gash) would hate them to think that they're about to join an organisation where received opinions are the norm, where opinion is dressed up as fact and where what counts is not the thoughtfulness or quality of the argument but the 'right' the person has earned to say it. Of course the Corps is like that but let them find that out when it's too late - like I did
Per Flank, Per Tank
- Tom Dickson
- Member

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- Joined: Tue 15 Apr, 2003 10:00 am
- Location: Germany
Re Jimmy Boyle
James (Jimmy) Boyle
1944 -
Gangster, murderer, artist and author. Born in the Glasgow Gorbals, the son of a well-known robber. Boyle began his career in petty crime before becoming a member of a dangerous Glasgow gang. He gained a reputation as 'Scotland's Most Violent Man', was involved in various serious assaults and was eventually found guilty of murder and imprisoned for life. Arrested spectacularly in a London pub in 1967, he was sent to the new 'Special Unit' in Barlinnie Prison (1973) which specialised in rehabilitation. Boyle responded to this regime and became an accomplished sculptor and went on to write his autobiography, A Sense of Freedom (1977). He was later released and now works with young offenders.
59 years old
James (Jimmy) Boyle
1944 -
Gangster, murderer, artist and author. Born in the Glasgow Gorbals, the son of a well-known robber. Boyle began his career in petty crime before becoming a member of a dangerous Glasgow gang. He gained a reputation as 'Scotland's Most Violent Man', was involved in various serious assaults and was eventually found guilty of murder and imprisoned for life. Arrested spectacularly in a London pub in 1967, he was sent to the new 'Special Unit' in Barlinnie Prison (1973) which specialised in rehabilitation. Boyle responded to this regime and became an accomplished sculptor and went on to write his autobiography, A Sense of Freedom (1977). He was later released and now works with young offenders.
59 years old
Once A Borderer Always A Borderer
