Iraqi Murderers

[harry hackedoff]

Today has seen the benefit, the positive results of eleven months of occupation. The biggest loss of Coalition lives so far. Twenty(?) of which were Americans. Latest figure I have is that thirteen of these guys were Leathernecks.
Bush wants to take out Sadr because he needs a result. The actions we have seen today, are inflaming an already explosive situation. We are days away from a countrywide insurrection and the loss of life will be astonishing. Sadr wants to play come and get me because he knows what that will look like to the outside world. An open attack on him will force the moderate mullahs to back him in his call for uprising. They`d be happy to see the upstart taken out, but not by major armoured incursions into Holy Citys.
One of the Grunts who died today has not been recovered so far. Tv of some twelve year old with a blood soaked flak jacket and the guys legs. Stand by for more dreadfull scenes.

To all who died today, and to the thirteen Gravs, take a tot
Semper Fidelis and Per Mare,
Aye.

[Ex-URNU-Student]

Good posts Harry, but iv a horrible feeling watching the news that theres much worse to come. I just hope our lads down in Basra dont get caught up in it.

[Artist]

And once again Religion creates another bloodbath.

Muslims and Christians both believe in the same God. Unfortunately yet again some Maniplative bas*ard (this time a Muslim) takes advantage of humanities gullability.

Result: A lot of people die for a reason that has no reason.
God? You can keep him!

Artist

[harry hackedoff]

our lads down in Basra dont get caught up in it.

They already are. They like the benefits from "doing it easy" is all.

The average Grav from the US doesn`t train for this, he isn`t prepared, it`s not his fault. Last time Elmer had any exposure to running a country after the bad guys left, was Deutschland in 1945.
It`s a wee bit differant today.
When I see that effing idiot Bush, or even worse, Bumbling Rumsfelt, gobbing off about " punishing" or " securing" it makes me want to heave.

Good men died today. They didn`t need to.
Here`s to `em

[Artist]

Very true Harry

Unfortunately a hell of a lot more ordinary people on both sides are going to die over the next few weeks.

Their is no way you can defeat fanatics with words or guns. Remove one fanatic and another two will take his/her place.

Humanity? What a silly word indeed.

Artist

[Ex-URNU-Student]

our lads down in Basra dont get caught up in it.

They already are. They like the benefits from "doing it easy" is all.

The average Grav from the US doesn`t train for this, he isn`t prepared, it`s not his fault. Last time Elmer had any exposure to running a country after the bad guys left, was Deutschland in 1945.
It`s a wee bit differant today.
When I see that effing idiot Bush, or even worse, Bumbling Rumsfelt, gobbing off about " punishing" or " securing" it makes me want to heave.

Good men died today. They didn`t need to.
Here`s to `em

Well said, they dont have a clue, I really felt for that US Army Captain I saw on the news yesterday who was asking in total bewilderment why the Iraqis were shooting at them when they'd just built them schools.

The difference in culture, religion and way of life was never more apparent.

[harry hackedoff]

Let`s not forget one thing. The end game.
That`s where everyone gets to go home alive.
How far away are we from that position?

Recent tone from Whitey says he`ll be absent from place of duty for a while. One of the fallen was a cousin of his(don`t mind me saying this, Whitey, please)
We tend to forget that there is a personal aspect to what`s happening in Iraq. The brunt of casualties being borne by our cuzz, the USMC. Give the leaders shite, but give the Gravs your support. Nasty Pasty, indeed.

Are you stalking me URNU? Because I haven`t had sex with a student for a few years now. I`d probably make an exception in your case though.
"well said `arry, I need a good reaming"

[Spannerman]

Well I guess its 'hammer time' again.

Bush has talked about insurgents, meaning revolt, these people are Iraqis living in Iraq, it is their land, their oil, their jobs. No one invited any of the Brits, Yanks or Aussies into that country, apart from a flimsy UN 1441 resolution. The whole thing has been a debacle from start to finish, unfortunately the lads on the ground are having ta take the brunt of political ineptitude in trying to diffuse a hotbed of hatred.

Watch the iron fist make the situation worse and have another Israeli/Palestinian problem to resolve, bombing mosques is not the answer not their holiest of shrines, isolate them until June 30th when the elections are held and then let them get on with it.

See the warlords clamouring for power over a puppet regime installed by Bush and opposed by Iran, what a bodged job! Best bring our guys back home, me thinks we may just be needing these lads on our streets before too long.

[Sticky Blue]

I've just seen the news and it is getting pretty crappy out there for the lads of all countries. One thing that did get the grey matter bubbling was the number of civilians killed, over 40. They didn't mention how many Iraqi gunmen were killed, why? Part of the problem, as I see it, is this:
If a UK, US or other soldier is shot, injured or killed he can be identified as a soldier on the news by his uniform... how many of these civilians were carrying guns or shooting at the lads when they were killed? They carry a gun in civvies and act as a soldier... they drop the gun and become a civilian! WE see them in hospital in plain clothes, badly injured etc but when they were shot, injured or killed, what were they doing?
The Americans fired on the wall of the Mosque with precision weapons because it was bieng used as a poitn from which these people were firing from. They thought they were safe behind its walls and they would have been if they had not been doing what they were doing. It looses it's 'sanctuary' status when used as a position to attack from. What would happen if a sniper was hiding in a church in the UK shooting at people? I would hope he would be taken out!
Another answer is to pull out now, close the borders and let the biggest guns win.

[Artist]

A mosque is just an a building, bricks, stone and mortar. If they fire from it and it is creating casualties on the coalition side take it out in my view. You can always build another one. Thats the Serviceman talking.

Unfortunately the fanatics in the Muslim World will see it as a total disregard of their religion and the net result will be more Worldwide terror attacks and a lot more body bags in Iraq itself.

We are in a war with Fanatics not Muslims, who bend the Koran to suit their own sick needs. I do not for one second think pulling out now will solve the problem. We are now in at the deep end in no uncertain terms. Indeed I consider pulling out now the biggest mistake the western world could make as the Fanatics would read into it Weakness. And the recruitment centres for these sick Bas*ards would soon be overflowing.

It's the classic catch22. The western world loses what ever it does. And Bas*ards like Bin Ladden rub their hands in Glee and watch their power grow.

The one thing we can do is remove the Zealots infesting our own countries. Where they go I do not care one Iota, lets just get shot of them. They and the likes of Bin Ladden use religion as a weapon and that to most right thinking people whatever their religion or creed is an anathama. Or it should be.

Artist

[Pasha]

I really don't see this insurgent offensive as some latter day Tet Offensive. Rather, a number of disparate groups are jockeying for pole position come June 30th. Talk on the news shows about 'Iraq Ablaze' or 'A nation errupting' are just journalistic hyperbole. Yes there are some very real and pressing problems which are causing some very real casualties, but lets try to think ahead of the other guy instead of always reacting (knee jerk fashion) to his every provocation.

For those of you that equate smart fighting with 'soft' fighting, could one of you proffer an explanation as to why you consider an enemy eliminated by the extremely prejudicial means of a "double-tap", less dead than if he had a cruise missle land on his street (which if statistics are any indicator, has a 1 in 10 chance of making it to an entirely different country or local Chinese Embassy).

Never mind the "British experience" and examine America's own track record. The best iniative that the US military undertook in Viet Nam was the MACVSOG teams, including the PRU (phoenix programme) which out terrored the terrorist. The worst thing they did was the mindless saturation bombing that turned the jungle into so much chopsticks and salad, and turned villagers into VC sympathisers.

Yes I agree with points already made, on establishing order in Falujah. Like Operation Motorman in N. Ireland (1971ish?), an effective and tough response is required to disabuse every molotov-wielding yob that he can establish his own Free Derry/Belfast/Sarajevo/Falujah on any given street corner. The point is, however, that these baiting mobs that we find so odious, are exactly that; cheerleaders. The mobs don't INSTIGATE and thus aren't worth the critical resources. Hunt down the problem makers, by fair means or foul, and everyone else will fall in line. You can call it economy of force, you can call it 'fighting smart' or even common sense. It's hardly new and surely not impossible to replicate in this theatre of ops? Just my thoughts.
Regards all.

Pasha

[df2inaus]

BenChug,

Spanners I don't know about that I grew up in Islington and if you had a problem with someone you kicked the crap out of him or he kicked the crap out of you.

Interesting that Islington now is bedrock Labour, full of feminized limosine leftists, hell-bent out to destroy the last vestiges of a disciplined, middle-class nation.

I don't know what Whitey said but sometimes this forum becomes a little bit socialist, I live in Canada I have enough Socialism and politcal correct crap to deal with here where you can't argue against Gay rights or your commiting a criminal act under bill C-250.

The eruption of hatred and extremism is beginning to lap at Canada's shores. How on earth will the Liberals ever deal with it? A Jewish children's school in Montreal gets lit up by a Molotov cocktail, and I'll bet Paul Martin's praying they never find the guy who did it, lest the Muslim community complain about a witch hunt.

The day is coming when even Canada, with its "lets pretend" attitude to the world will have to make some choices and live with them.

He who pleases everyone pleases no one. Anyone but the Liberals this time, please.

[Wholley]

Pasha,
With you on this,although Ted Kennedy is busily trying to draw a comparison between Iraq and Vietnam.Even his best buddy(Kerry) is pulling back from his rant.McCain is not someone I generally agree with but he blasted Kennedy in the Senate today,and rightly so.
With friends like Ted,who needs an enemy.
Wholley.

[harry hackedoff]

Pasha top post as ever Wholley same same.
Any twonk trying to equate Iraq vith "Vietnam" for political point scoring should be reminded of what a twat they are at the next election. We’ve had winkers, from that fat Kennedy bloke who drowned his secretary, to useless gobshites in Oz, and every tosser in between, comparing the " Quagmire" of Vietnam with present day sitch in Iraq. One of the benefits of living here is that local news feeds use BBC, CNN,NBC, Eyeties, Greeks etc etc national TV News. Every single feed has the same argument, it’s an irrelevance. A tool to keep the masses entertained. I’ve heard locals quoting the same shite as if it was their own idea. It’s deteriorating into another Vietnam, they say. Is it bollocks mate, where’s the jungle in Iraq, for one thing, says I. They don`t pick up on the irony
Same last year when Andy and I gave a daily news update. I watched the channels you watch in UKers, plus CNN NBC plus Russ TV, Spanish French local stuff from Philippines, Singers, Malaya and Chinese, even Al Jazeera. Funny thing was, they all had the same footage and very similar editorial comment. Either news editors are incapable of independent thought, or they are repeating what they are being fed. Spooky.
All of those sources I quoted above, were playing down today’s` events as "minority bad guys" stuff and not typical of "most Iraqis" Really?

[Spannerman]

A comparison between Iraq and Vietnam can be seen on this BBC article:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-p ... 608473.stm