The 'Paras 10'

[BIG Hal]

how come they are cut off Alpha? I thought that they were there to...ermm...make it more comfortable when carrying a bergan the size of a baby elephant

[Ria]

I've been training with a bog-standard bergen, but have just been
given the following advice from the OC of P Coy ( race organiser ).....
Quote..."My advice would be to ensure that above all else there is
adequate cushioning on both the shoulder straps, & the lumbar support
at the base of the back, as these are the two areas that bear the weight."

Edited to add.....My little nephew says I can also borrow his Action Man
water bottle for the race..... It would be rude not to....

[Alfa]

the lumbar support at the base of the back

I was thinking you meant the waist belt to be honest but from that quote above it's obviously part of the actual Bergen itself, even so there's not that much cushioning on the issue ones at Catterick. But then again it's a civvy event so health and safety play's a big part and it's obviously best to be as comfortable as possible if you want to put in a good effort.

@Big Hal. I'm not really sure as to the exact reason they cut them off to be honest, but I think it's down to the fact that the waist belts allow the hips to take a lot of the weight. You don't really carry a huge amount of weight during training (ie not 100lbs!) plus you start off quite light at first and then progress upwards to around 45lbs so having your back take the extra work load possibly strengthens it up more for when you have to carry heavier loads?

I'm sure Sandy would know the exact reason for it but that's my best guess.

[Sully]

I don't think the lumbar support would act as such if the straps weren't done up.

Military: I found it hard getting the bergan right - I don't recall relying on the waist straps to take any of the weight as it tended to 'sit' on top of your webbing - which (sort of) did the job of the 'lumbar support'. The straps were done up just to keep them out of the way - cutting them off sounds a bit drastic but training establishments have their rules and reasons. RM recruits (and I suppose any decent infantryman would) spent hours getting the webbing right (nice and snug) and then making sure that the bergan sits up on the shoulders so that it doesn't sag down too much on the webbing. It's hard to explain but have a play around. A well fitting CEMO makes yomping/tabbing/advancing to contact sooo much easier and probably keeps you on your feet for a few more years as age sets in.

Paras 10: I would definitely do the event with a decent civvy bergan (any fool can suffer) but be careful about tightening it all up too much. There's a trade off between having it really tight and reducing friction and keeping it in the right place and being able to breathe freely - I'd imagine your lungs and diaphragm would need all the space they can get. The Action Man water bottle sounds a must - at least you won't get too wet when the pti tips it over your head for not being toppers ...but I'd also take a bigger reserve or stick a cammelback in your bergan ...but obviously you will.

[Ria]

I am very certain that the forum's resident P Coy expert, Sandy would advise the same.

Have you come over here from MF just to annoy Sandy?
Could get very interesting.
I shall watch with interest.
I know who my money's on if it comes down to a full-on cyber scrap.

[Ria]

thanks to the "Press" ....well done you...cheers

What, me personally? I'm not the press. If I got to do one article
on Paras training it would be with the full backing of the MoD
& Para Reg.

I'm not trying to stir up s*it. I'm suggesting you don't come onto
another Forum trying to undermine someone with Sandy's knowledge
& experience, who comes on these Forums in his own time to help
people, & pass on this experience.
I've PM'ed you.

Anyway, back to the Paras 10. I keep moving this thread off subject.
I did a fell race at the weekend, with bergen for practice.
It was such a fiasco, with the organisers removing all the route markers,
(leaving me wandering the moors lost......) that I think I'll write a post
about it, when I've recovered from heat exhaustion.......it was HOT...

[Sully]

Viking, I did enough yomping and speed marching (although admittedly not much of it around the iconic Pen-y-Fan ) to 'earn' a crocked lower back and a pension. There's probably not much I could have done about that (other than done a bit less) but as you get older it's a shock to the system as the once unbreakable body (before joining up I used to run in steel toe-capped boots with ankle weights - like a smart blurk ) starts to creak and groan.

Most young men (maybe women - I don't know) are equipped with a back that can take a bergan and the medical will sort out those who aren't...and feet....are just feet. If we want to be simplistic then I would say it's 90% motivation, pain threshold and attitude but that's not something that can really be taught.

I'm not obsessive about bergans, I thought I'd share my view which comes partly from instruction and tips (mostly from old sweats) and part trial and error. The aspiring paras here can take it or leave it but for the record I think sorting your kit out and making what you're issued with work for you is an important part of the job.

[Dave_1987]

Thats fcucking hardcore!

[Ria]

My team are now going hopefully going too be doing something a bit different in the race.

We will do the 10 miler with bergens on get back in drop the bergens off put trainers on then run round the route, and hopefully raise a bit money for the blokes injured in Afghan.

Brilliant idea.
I'll sponsor you.
( When you run past me on your second time round, will you
give me a piggy-back to the finish.......??
Now THAT'S a challenge.....I'm not light..... )

[Illustrious]

Jesus Sandy, what type of motorised transport are you using

Sounds like a hell of a pace, 6.66mph average. Good luck to you.

[mfat_man]

My team are now going hopefully going too be doing something a bit different in the race.

We will do the 10 miler with bergens on get back in drop the bergens off put trainers on then run round the route, and hopefully raise a bit money for the blokes injured in Afghan.

Sandy if you have a website for this etc or need a cheque let me know where, will put something in thanks, John.

[just_me]

As mentioned above is there a website, or a collection pot at certain places (ie AFCOs) or somewhere I could sponser or put some money into the cause?