Iraq and afghan

[jabcrosshook]

Going on from Mitches post.
One problem I have noticed is that Britain once gave Iraq a young King and a Parliament with a democratic system.
Well a long story short, the young king was killed, there was a mutiny within the army among the generals, soldiers allegencies were all different, the government was overthrown, different people were assasinated and one general came out on top, Suddam Hussein, anyone who went against him was killed.
That alone doesn't make me see a bright future for Iraq, I don't think it will ever be a stable place with all the different sects of society out there, Sunnies, Shi'ites, Kurds, then you've got Iran next door. I just can't see a good future.

[degrees of passion]

i dont want to delve into the minefield that is the whole argument over the wars in iraq and afghanistan, but i'd like to raise the issue of morality and values in the forces....as a wannabe marine,im finding it hard to come to terms with the fact that our soldiers put their lives on the line,for,lets face it, lying bastard politicians.maybe some serving or retired bootnecks could shed some light on this:i know that the front-line mentality is very much kill or be killed and you're fighting for yourself and your oppos(and yes you knew the score before you signed up),but surely it must come into your mind that maybe you're fighting a pointless war.is it therefore best for a soldier to not even consider the politics and just do the job he's ordered to do?

it is always going to be true that the state runs the armed forces,but doesnt anyone else think that the politicians(and civilian analysts) have too much influence over the armed forces,and that they should stop interfering with the higher end of strategy and let the generals get on with their job?vietnam springs to mind

anyway,just to show that its not all serious i think that iraq is sometimes like the weather up here in the north east.....sometimes its sunni sometimes its shi'ite

[Alfa]

is it therefore best for a soldier to not even consider the politics and just do the job he's ordered to do?

You've probably hit the nail on the head here, one thing you'll need to accept is that you won't have any influence over the political situation so it's best to just to try and not focus on the politics of the situation. Easier said than done maybe but........

it is always going to be true that the state runs the armed forces,but doesnt anyone else think that the politicians(and civilian analysts) have too much influence over the armed forces,and that they should stop interfering with the higher end of strategy and let the generals get on with their job?vietnam springs to mind

I agree that political interferance in military matters that they don't understand is a bad thing, however there should always be political oversight of military operations to make sure things are kept in check.

For example, if General MacArthur had been given a free reign to run the war the way he saw fit in Korea he would have deployed nuclear weapons all along the Yalu River to destroy the Chinese re-enforcements coming over the boarder and would have more than likely started World War III.

We benifit from having a decent military which isn't interested in seizing power, however when there is a lack of political oversight or a lack of will to reign in the military history shows that things change and they can become a law unto themselves and that is very rarely a good thing.

It's all about checks and balances, we have them for the military but the question left to us by Tony Blair is do we have them for the politicians?

Gordon Brown's move to ensure that only Parliament and not the PM will be able to approve a war should go some way to solving this and making things more accountable but I'm not sure how much difference it will make in reality.

[riflebutt]

I know its the yanks but is a good quote from Eric Bana in the film Black Hawk Down. When he's sitting down and says something along the lines of '' when the bullets start flying, politics and all that shit goes straight out the window'' just about sums it all up.

Jamie

[AJtothemax]

'' when the bullets start flying, politics and all that shit goes straight out the window''

You talk to any soldier, im sure they'll tell you the same thing. The ones i've spoken to have said the same sort of stuff.

You've got to have massive respect for that. We couldn't imagine it.

[lukeyluke]

I’m of the opinion that Soldiers should be Soldiers and Politicians should be Politicians. It’s ok for a Soldier to have an opinion on the political situation as best as he knows it, as it is ok for a politician to have an opinion on how a battle should be fought however what we have to remember is that these are only opinions and each man should carry out his own job the best way he knows.

What we read in the paper or find out elsewhere isn’t the in and out political situation of a war, be the real political situation immoral, corrupt or otherwise. Basically what I’m getting at is we shouldn’t presume to think we could do another’s job without having all of the facts and ability to hand thus our opinions should be kept as opinions and not affect the method and professionalism in which we carry out our jobs.

I don’t think for a minute that it does affect the professionalism of our forces however I hope you see the nature of my point.

[MadAd]

There are Pros and cons of Iraq that i can see.

I have studied the topic at uni for a while and there are parts of it that i agree with and other parts that i dont. Im sure alot of the forces out there have their own views on it. But my views on topics such as this one is, you sign up for a job in the forces, navy, army airforce whatever, so your there to do you job regardless of whether you think its wrong or right. if you want to have a say in things go be a politician. Simple as!