Restorative Justice

[Sisyphus]

Wully

Where this has been tried out 75% of the victims said it helped them to achieve some sort of closure and move on. The wants and wishes of the criminals are of no relevance to me. If it helps the victims, it gets my vote.

[Chester]

Wully, Andy

......The only answer



TILL THEIR BACKS BLEED

[Andy O'Pray]

Those were the days, however, they used a cop of larger build to administer it. I never knew of any who wanted a repeat performance. If I remember correctly, the last time it was administered was in Douglas, Isle of Mann on a couple of Glasgow thugs. Said thugs, through their tears, vowed never to return to the Isle of Mann.

Aye - Andy.

[Chester]

Last birching in IOM was 1975 apparently, Euro w*nkers decided it was inhumane and it was banned after that

Quote from http://home.freeuk.com/mkb/institutions.htm

A former police bircher was reported as saying: 'The birch cuts; it bruises; sometimes it raises weals that stay for several weeks.'

Humiliation was deemed to be an essential part of the punishment. According to one of the police officers deputed to wield the rod: 'Too many young hooligans laugh at a prison sentence or fine. They don't laugh at a birching.'

[Wully]

I cannot see how being faced by the young thug who beat seven bells out of you and hospitalised you would help in any way to dispel the fear an old person now has of venturing outside their own door. The aftermath of a mugging or robbery virtually makes a prisoner of them in their own home. When these old people should be enjoying a good quality of life in their last years they are kept on the breadline by the government and made prisoners by crime. The sort of crime they are victim to is caused by the need for drugs. I would willingly act as the government executioner and top every drug pusher in the country. You wouldn't need to top them all; just the first dozen or so and leave their bodies in gutter as a warning to the others. I'm sure the message would soon get around.

[Artist]

Public humilation of the offending Bas*ards would not come amiss.

Call me old fashioned but I reckon the best way to make them rethink there lifstyle is to mock them in public. Bring back the birch. I am not joking Boys and girls. Seeing some cocky little bas*ard flicking two fingers at the cameramen as once again he is let off the hook by some Liberal minded PC pillock who lives a million miles away from the poor sods who have to put up with these gits annoys me, to put it mildy.

Maybe if the Magistrates lived in the same estates as the majority of the victims of crime a few more custodial sentences would be handed out.

I am all for Capital and Corporall punishment. Sorry if this is not PC to some. (f*ck it no I'm not!) I was brought up to believe that if you commit a crime, and are caught you suffer the consequences.

If you had an unhappy childhood, behavoral problems and all that other bulls*it used to get these scumbags of the hook. Well...... Toughski shitski as they say in the Russian Marines. Because if you ever went in front of me I'd be putting on the black cap and sending you down for as long as I could.

Aye Artist

[owdun]

The rehabilitation of criminals used to include hard labour, rock breaking was a favored item at the Moor, elsewhere mail-bag sewing and such like activities were used.The one thing the low life bastards really hate, is work of any description, so force them to it. The other thing we all hate,is pain, and since the cane and birch have been banished, juvenile crime has rocketed, and most inner city schools are out of control.Murder was relatively rare when hanging was the punishment, headlines for days in the national press. Now it's relegated to the odd column in the local rag, it's so prevalent that it's no longer news worthy. I've lived for 73 years, and have seen the slow degredation of a once fine country because of the undue influence of minority pressure groups, it's time to reverse the trend,and if Draconian measures are needed, so be it.

Aye Owdun.

[Sticky Blue]

Are we all militants? I agree that humiliation, pain etc would only do good. But what about the ODD innocent one... so we only use it for the second offence! They also have the humiliation of having their crimes made public. Then the general public can spot any "louts" who receive any correction when walking down the street and avoid them. I don't think WE are militants... just that the people who won't accept that this could be the solution are... well, I'm sure you can work it out!

[Andy O'Pray]

I have been awaiting the anti capital punishment arguement of the innocent people who have been convicted. This only highlights an inefficient, lousy, or corrupt police, or legal system. Surely the answer is to clean up those systems.

Two days ago a police officer in Canada stopped a suspect vehicle. Three men egressed the vehicle, one of them holding a machette. The police officer shot and killed the one with the machette, wounded another and the third ran off. Another piece of scum off the streets.

I watched a programme on NI last night. The republicans of the time accused the British of having a shoot to kill policy. Damn right we did. If you believe that your, or someone elses life is in danger, you shoot to kill. Basically the troop on the street becomes judge, jury and executioner and only has a split second to come to a conclusion.

It is time that the tree huggers were put back into their green box and hand society back to the majority of the people and give them a justice system that they want and deserve.

There is a lot that I don't agree with in the US, but I envy their criminal punishment system. In Utah you even get the choice of how you want to be put to death, now you can't get fairer than that.

Aye - Andy.

[Pilgrim Norway]

Wully, Andy & Co.....

You are not alone....

Bring back the birch and capital punishment...
(not the 'capital' whereby the villain is paid for not offending ! ).

By all means introduce the villains to their victims - then birch 'em...

I agree that prison is too expensive for our society today- and too soft
in some cases... and countries... "strikes because of lack of choice in
TV programmes" etc....

Bit of good pick and shovel work - digging new quarries and filling them in.
AFTER the birching....

'Aye
Stone age

[JR]

'The University of the Moor' HMP Dartmoor,I had the privilege to serve on the 'Moor' as a Prison Officer'It was at that time classed has a hard 'Nick' the quarry was still in working order,and if any of Cons bucked the system a few weeks in the quarry worked wonders,the prison system went to pot when the do-gooder's started to protest about the conditions,the 'Moor'was a well run system,Any problems (Riots) or sit ins were put down immediately staff usually went in mob handed, now frowed upon.The Governor was a ex Naval Officer,new arrivals would be marched into the Gov's office and his first words to the inmates would be,'Dont play up here.We tame lions. Now most of the senior managment have degree's in sociology.Oh how the mighty have fallen.

Anybody want the proccedure for topping some B*****D.Aye jr

[gash-hand]

Well, its fairly obvious i'm in the minority here. Having read through the posts I think the general concensus is that we execute everyone and those we can't execute we birch them then throw them in prison. Quite how this is going to dissuade a long term drug addict to give up his/her habit I have no idea.

I think this argument has gotten lost somewhere between the government funding drug addicts and capital punushment. Again i'm no expert, but the majority of the scr*tes you see on the telly flicking their fingers up at the old bill are juveniles - therefore they cannot be arrested and dealt with as adults - the real problem with these people stems from their parents, but then how do you deal with that? You could lock up the parents but then what happens to the kids?

As for drug related crime, I thought the reason for the addicts getting the money was on the basis that they attend a rehabilitation program to kick the habit -surely this has to be a better option than locking them up? Its been proved time and again sending a druggie to prison does nothing to assist them to kick the habit - so when they get out you have another drug related crime.

Found this article on birching:

'To consider the question of corporal punishment in the penal systems of England and Wales and of Scotland; to review the law and practice relating to the use of this method of punishment by Juvenile Courts, by other Courts and as a penalty for certain offences committed by prisoners; and to report what changes are necessary or desirable.'

Corporal punishment of juveniles as a court penalty is entirely different from its use by parent or schoolmaster. There is no relation of mutual affection, less opportunity of knowing the psychological suitability of the child for such punishment, or of giving aftercare and supervision. It has not proved an effective deterrent in practice. All existing powers of courts to order the birching of young offenders should be repealed. Corporal punishment of adults and adolescents administered in prison is a more severe penalty than the birching of young offenders. It is not reformative, and has had no exceptional influence as a deterrent. The existing powers to impose sentences of corporal punishment on persons convicted on indictment should be repealed. The fear of corporal punishment does have a strong deterrent effect on prisoners who might otherwise commit serious offences against prison discipline, and many of the objections to its use as a court penalty do not apply in this case. The Committee specifies in detail the changes required."

You may be interested to know this report was published in 1938, 40 years later birching was outlawed on the Isle of man after the birching of a 15 year old schoolboy was found to have breached article 3 of the European court of human rights.

[Sully]

I'm with you mate, especially after reading some of the 'military forums taleban' comments above. I think a lot of us should be thankful that there are people who are prepared to address things like this in a constructive way - I couldn't do it. I did do a spell as a volunteer with the probation service in Guz (the scheme was run by a former RM Sgt Major). I admire all of the officers and volunteers I came across and especially the coordinator. He didn't want to give the cons cream cakes and cuddles, he wanted to stop them offending and introduce them to a normal decent life. How many people here could be bothered with that? The point is that a lot of people here seem to want to question the motives of anyone who approaches things differently. I don't consider myself particularly liberal when it comes to sentencing or punishment but I think this initiative (in my limited experience of these things) is a good idea. And I do find the baying for corporal punishment above a bit perverse.

[Maverick]

The reason that the country is in such a state is because we have something that they didn't have 50 years ago - heroin.

I come from Glasgow originally and it is the most deprived city in the UK. I used to get hassle some nights off guys my age who were dirty wee neds. The thing is - I, in my liberal pc way, felt sorry for them.

I was pretty well off and came from a good, two parent family. These guys had junkies for parents and probably hadn't had a decent meal in their lives. They were just sad little guys who had nothing going for them in their lives. All they had was their Buckfast wine and their gang. Ask yourself what you would be like if your parents and friends were on smack?

And you think that if they commit a crime they should be birched? What the hell is that supposed to achieve? It will only further humiliate and alienate them from society. They're kids will have worse parents than they did. Haven't you heard of the poverty cycle?

What you have to do is find a way to help them change their lives around. They don't want to live the life they do but they don't know any other way.

[Sully]

The idea behind volunteering for the probation service was to try and do something positive. I would turn up to the homes of violent criminals (because I was a serving Royal ) who had only known drugs, violence, whores etc and take them out running where we could chat about what they had done and why and look into the sense of it. One gave up smack completely when I was with him and started getting into half marathons. It was a great source of satisfaction when this fella told me with pride that he had turned away some of his former smack head friends saying that he was off the smack and into running. He wasn't a bad man deep down (although on paper he was very bad), he just didn't know any better until I got into his ear about it so, Maverick, I couldn't agree more.