Six RM Instructors For Court Martial

[Gazza85]

PM, there is a world of difference between bullying and professional encouragement.
I was professioanlly encouraged throughout training with dangly carrots that were snatched away or given. Threats of a good slapping if we got it wrong became running round the block in NBC kit with weapon above the head. If you were seen to be loafing or walking another lap sorted you out. Would that be seen as bullying?

"OK Lads. Get this right and you can all have Saturday off"
We would all get it right and end up working Saturday morning... bullying or mental cruelty or just the reality of training?

I see that as being the right way of training people. If you ask someone to do that little bit extra during training and they refuse, what are they going to be like when the sh1t hits the fan in iraq or somewhere?

I'm all for professional encouragement but there is a line between that and bullying.

[druadan]

But where's that line? That's the problem. Just as an example: in our troop there was one lad who was a complete muppet. I have no idea how he passed his PRMC in the first place. He was always the one at the back in any kind of phys, he was always the last one out the grot after you've been given all of a minute to change rigs, etc etc. Always one of the ones the rest of the troop ends up getting thrashed for. He had two NDs, one with live rounds on the range, firing on automatic instead of repeat (no I'm not talking about the other lad who've I mentioned before on here who did it), and got thrown off two shoots on the range because he was bloody dangerous! He wasn't allowed to lob the live grenade either.

Now, firstly, I'll point out that both myself and the rest of the troop agreed with the actions of the training team in preventing him in taking part in some activities, he really needed a LOT of extra one-to-one training in some areas before he'd be safe with live weapons with limited supervision (one safety staff to every 6 firers or whatever it is). That wasn't punishment, that was safety.

Because of all the above, he got a lot of stick from everyone, and was punished by the training team far more regularly than the rest of us - no worse punishments, not for different things, he just got more of them! At first guys tried to get round him and get him squared away, but he took the attitude that we were being condescending or whatever - he was a 26 yr old lad who worked in IT before the Corps, how could he be wrong? He constantly moaned that he was being bullied, has since been discharged as unsuitable for training, and last we heard was going to appeal on grounds of being bullied out or some such.

Would you class that as bullying? An outsider sure as hell would, he was constantly being punished for something. Of course everyone gets the piss ripped out of them for something or other by the rest of the troop and training team - for him it was always something to do with his performance, because it was invariably shite. So yes, anyone looking in would see it as bullying, but if you trained with him day in day out, you'd soon see none of it was unjustified in any way. Unfortunately in todays political and legal environment and cotton wool world, nobody seems to understand that some jobs require you to be a little tougher than others - show me an Iraqi that'll respect your human rights when captured.

"OK Lads. Get this right and you can all have Saturday off"
We would all get it right and end up working Saturday morning... bullying or mental cruelty or just the reality of training?

This is something we get a lot, mind games. Sometimes they stick to what they say, everyone digs out blind and you get what you're promised. The next time you'll put the same effort in, and still get punished/not rewarded. But again, that's life - they need people who aren't going to wrap just because things don't go they're way, mental toughness is as important to the Corps as physical, if not more so.


Just gonna go ease my finger cramps after all that...

[Gazza85]

Yeh it is a fine line that i guess does get corssed sometimes and one punishment can get mixed up as bullying and so forth.

Anyhow i will talk about this in more detail after saturday.

Its christmas eve, ive had a skinfull and im jolly, no need to talk about bullying today.

Merry christmas all.

[davo141]

imagine if some iraqis came at 0600 shouting and poor ickle marineypants had to fight through a bog....these **** would proberly hold up there nice persil white pants there mam had bought them specially for ops and surrender as they dont like the mud and its too early and to be fair, the noise is scaring them...bless them!

[davo141]

training is planned..you only get a saturday off if its programmed in, not if the training team feel so, if they say they'll give you it and dont, i rekon you where never going to get it anyways...

32 weeks seems like a long time but sometimes i feel we dont half rush some stuff, important stuff at that sometimes....

imagine if a PTI shouted at you to get up the nice pretty ropes...hell on...id jump up and down and sulk and say noo mr.cpl not till you ask nicley...would i f@#k..get up get down job done!

[COMBAT WOMBAT]

Are you pisshed DAVO? You seem rather incoherent

[PointMan]

PM, there is a world of difference between bullying and professional encouragement.
I was professioanlly encouraged throughout training with dangly carrots that were snatched away or given. Threats of a good slapping if we got it wrong became running round the block in NBC kit with weapon above the head. If you were seen to be loafing or walking another lap sorted you out. Would that be seen as bullying?

Ok, my terminology wasn't exactly on the ball, but I agree with you; professional encouragement is fine and necessary, bullying, together with its negative connotations is not.

I meant "bullying" in so far as its gets a guy to do something he'd probably rather not, but actually bl**dy better!

Anyways, what's wrong with mud?

[barryc]

Training for me goes back to deal in 1962, I was just turned 17, fresh faced, shy and had led something of a sheltered life. Our DI (as they were then called), told me I would not make a marine and he would get me out before I finished at Deal. Initially the things I was picked up for, with extra drills to follow, were probably justified. After a while though I believe it became a little more like victimisation, picked up on three consecutive days for a hair cut (as you may recall, at Deal you had no say in how your hair was cut so just how it could be too long after day one is beyond me). It became a bit mindless, an ex bugler squaddie actually swapped kit with me for one morning parade, he got his usual pat on the back and I got my usual extra drill.

Deal was a misery and as he delivered us to Lympstone, via Pompey and Poole he told me that he had left my name with our new training team. Lympstone was great, I was never singled out again throughout the rest of my training and passed out as one of the originals of the squad.

Was I bullied? looking back on it I suppose I was. I wasn't beaten but was often beasted, (not a phrase then in use),sworn at and belittled, made to feel totally useless and to dread each morning parade. He failed to get me out at Deal, but did succeed with two others, and I went on to do my time and throughly enjoy being a bootneck. I never ran across that man again but have seen him praised and lauded on this and Tony Lang's site. However it never crossed my mind to complain about the treatment I received, if I had been an apprentice in civvy street I would have probably been treated almost as badly. I was young and needed to learn, his methods were stupid in my view as I am sure I gave much more of myself to the Lympstone training team, who balanced stick with carrot and didn't pick out individuals for special treatment, as long as you were giving 100% you were basically what the Corps wanted.

I was and will always be proud of having been a Royal Marine, on the day I left Bill Carroll as RSM at Pompey told me I was the sort of man the Corps needed to keep. I feel I proved that DI wrong, I was Royal Marine material, I have no strong feelings about the guy, but I certainly could not respect him, unlike most NCOs I later served with.

Barry

[Artist]

Seems like the entire Military has got a Bee in its bonnet about bullying.

During my time in the Corp I had the normal amount of Beasting. Both in training and later on.

At Deal we were introduced to the "Shingle Run". Running up and down Deals "NICE" beach was a killer. But everybody did it at least once.

I once discovered the joys of swimming in the river Exe at 0610hrs for being caught in bed at 0605hrs. (the tide was in) On the Moor our entire troop discovered what happens when your not "Doing it Right" and spent the entire night doing sect and troop attacks. But anybody who has been at CTC will agree that it was what happened if you didnt get it right. And I imagine it's just the same now.

On my Juniors I got an hours extra drill for telling two Nods "Try Marching in step, it helps" I was heard and seen by the First Drill who did not take to kindly to my words of advice.

"Number 26! Yes you L/Cpl! What the bloody hell did you just say to them two Recruits?!"
"Cleverclogs are we?"
"Whos your Instructor?"
"Stand by to stand by Number 26!"

I did "Stand By" and got an hours extra drill from the JCC DI who was less than happy about missing his Din Dins and let me know it in no uncertain terms! Are you out there Taff?

You get a black armband with a red number when on the JCC or SCC so's the higher ups can give you grief when they feel bored. I was number 69 on me SCC! A certain Signals C/Sgt shouted out to me once "Swas en nuff, (I don't speak French) the wifes expecting you for dinner Sunday. Don't be late or I'll stitch you up with your training team!"


What they did was not bullying in my book. But, lets wait for the facts before we judge both the Training Team and the Nods. Sorry. Recruits.

Artist

[Woody]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/engl ... 109273.stm

[Poony]

This country has gone to shit with all this PC, cant say this, cant say that, cant do this, cant do that bollox.... In the words of Peter Kay..its proper w@#k.

Hope the IT guy is sitting back behind his desk now....arse....

If you persistantly get bullied take the hint, i would

[stripey588]

I only did 12 months at CTC,(got back trooped at week 27 after final ex).

We were shouted at. (though the DL would talk to you, but made it perfectly clear he wasnt a happy bunny).

We were beasted. 53 strong, many in tears, but never a threatened. The thought of upsetting SGT Mullany was to much of an incentive to fail. as Troop SGT he was about 5 ft 5, slim and wirey, but by christ, when he spoke, you jumped.

We had a good training team, who made training fun.

But they were also aware that the recruits they were training may oneday also be watching their backs, and they made us aware of this.

We were shouted at so when someone said down, we didnt ask, we just did it.

When are politicians going to learn that they decide the wars, but they send in the military to fight/police them.

You cant treat recruits as guests, then expect them to pass out from training on the friday then go to a combat area on the sunday, as several have done.

You do get bad apples in every barrel, but they are few and far between.

Reading the charges, it should be laughed out of court.

[harry hackedoff]

"Rule one, No Poofters" isn`t meant to be a statement of how we see "gender confused" or whatever. It`s an in-joke on these forums.
Bullying is never acceptable in the Corps and we`ve had this one many times.
stripey 588 and Sticks have it right.

[42]

when it all comes to light you`ll see this is a bullying case that has a lot of bad publicity with it if its the one i know about.not good for the corps