Same here Rob,
I feel a bit torn in two. I have always had serious missgivings about this conflict, yet Clive is out there and I suddenly feel the need to show support. My feelings were once again succinctly portrayed by the very honest and frank Mr Jonathon Gornall in the T2 supplement on the 21st of March. I realised then, that I was not the only person feeling this way. You have just reinforced that fact Rob. There are a great many of us, who have serious reservations about the validity of this conflict and where it might end...or lead to.
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Is it just me?
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North Sea Tigress
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- Location: Bonnie Scotland/Southern North Sea
I hope that was has been shown here is the way an alternative viewpoint to the 'perceived' or 'correct' view may be expressed, openly, calmly and with logical argument. These forums are not the preserve of the linear thought police. It is acceptable, even desirable that some have differing views and arguments. This would be a terribly boring and patronising world if we all agreed with each other. I'm glad I raised the nut over the parapet, and didn't get hammered in the old kevlar! I have to admit I feel a lot better for having done so.
You should talk to somebody who gives a f**k.
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El Presidente
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El Presidente
There are some very interesting and reasoned opinions here and I for one are glad we are able to express them.
Most of us are under 50. Apart from a few relatively minor conflicts we have lived, more or less in peace, thanks to the power of organisations like NATO.
I think, post september 11th that the world has changed somewhat, and that the old world threats, east v west, has changed quite fundamentally.
Perhaps we are used to the threat of terrorism, after all we have endured for thirty odd years, but it is a long established principle in law of a first strike if you feel threatend, with the usual caveat of reasonable force etc.
What concerns me are our reasons for the support of the United States, a country which through voluntary contributions, has supported terrorist organisations for many, many years and as such, has been partially responsible for the deaths of UK Servicemen and women, Police Officers and Civillians including children.
Using Bush's logic, does this mean we could have attacked the US, I am sure we could have!
I am uncertain what gives the Americans the moral high ground, perhaps someone could tell me!!!!
Thank goodness the majority support our troops abroad, and at home. Wether we like it or not, we are in this for the duration and I don't think it will end once the fighting stops in Iraq.
Most of us are under 50. Apart from a few relatively minor conflicts we have lived, more or less in peace, thanks to the power of organisations like NATO.
I think, post september 11th that the world has changed somewhat, and that the old world threats, east v west, has changed quite fundamentally.
Perhaps we are used to the threat of terrorism, after all we have endured for thirty odd years, but it is a long established principle in law of a first strike if you feel threatend, with the usual caveat of reasonable force etc.
What concerns me are our reasons for the support of the United States, a country which through voluntary contributions, has supported terrorist organisations for many, many years and as such, has been partially responsible for the deaths of UK Servicemen and women, Police Officers and Civillians including children.
Using Bush's logic, does this mean we could have attacked the US, I am sure we could have!
I am uncertain what gives the Americans the moral high ground, perhaps someone could tell me!!!!
Thank goodness the majority support our troops abroad, and at home. Wether we like it or not, we are in this for the duration and I don't think it will end once the fighting stops in Iraq.
L/Cpl R.M. (Retd).
I think El Prez has made his point excellently.
I am a serving RM reservist and feel the case for war has not been made. When the war started i was on exercise with the reserves in the states. I found (through watching and talking with civillian americans) that the news coverage preceding the war has clouded the US populas with too many falsehoods. And beleive that they are unsure about the war themselves.
I also have oppo's and freind's who as RM reservists have chossen to deploy with the rest of the lads in iraq, which i whole herartedly support along with the rest of this site.
However the one thing i support and have the highest regard for is what the loved ones and families of the lads out there have to endure!
I am a serving RM reservist and feel the case for war has not been made. When the war started i was on exercise with the reserves in the states. I found (through watching and talking with civillian americans) that the news coverage preceding the war has clouded the US populas with too many falsehoods. And beleive that they are unsure about the war themselves.
I also have oppo's and freind's who as RM reservists have chossen to deploy with the rest of the lads in iraq, which i whole herartedly support along with the rest of this site.
However the one thing i support and have the highest regard for is what the loved ones and families of the lads out there have to endure!
Chaos, Disorder, Destruction.....My work here is done!
*****
"The man who follows the crowd will usually get no further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no one has ever been. --- Alan Ashley Pitt"
*****
Why can't you accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.
*****
"The man who follows the crowd will usually get no further than the crowd. The man who walks alone is likely to find himself in places no one has ever been. --- Alan Ashley Pitt"
*****
Why can't you accept that some days you're the pigeon, and some days you're the statue.
I agree with all thats been said by you people,except for the comments about sidelining the UN.The reason this war is under way, is because the UN. has once again failed to live up to its original mandate.The UN. should have sorted the likes of Saddam,Mugabe and others of that ilk,long ago,but its failure to do so allows people like Bush And Blair to mount some obscene moral !! argument,and act as knights in shining armour,when the truth is that they are shite little politicians,hoping to be regarded as Statesmen.
Aye Owdun.
Aye Owdun.
Well, i was very uneasy at the sudden "rush" to war. I worried that the arab world would see this as a simple attack on islam and more bin ladens would be born. And frankly bush seems a bit..well not to genuine. And rumsfield seems to be trying to expand the wara times
But obviously you support the soldiers out there once it happens.
The question i REALLY would love to know the answer to, is
What is blair getting out of it, ive narrowed it down
a) He feels he is securing britains safety
b) He thinks its nessecary, in order to keep america as friends
c) He thinks he will get britain a chunk of rebuilding contracts / cheap oil as a "reward" (he wont but he may have thought that)
Anyway, most important thing is to show our support for those on the sharp end. My uncle is not on "the front line", but its still worrying times.
But obviously you support the soldiers out there once it happens.
The question i REALLY would love to know the answer to, is
What is blair getting out of it, ive narrowed it down
a) He feels he is securing britains safety
b) He thinks its nessecary, in order to keep america as friends
c) He thinks he will get britain a chunk of rebuilding contracts / cheap oil as a "reward" (he wont but he may have thought that)
Anyway, most important thing is to show our support for those on the sharp end. My uncle is not on "the front line", but its still worrying times.
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harry hackedoff
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Total agreement from here.
How many times did that cult promise to show us the proof? Whilst moving troops into theatre" just in case".
Any loss of life caused by the wheeler dealers in Washington or London is tragic, of course. The relatively high rate of British casualties, and most of all, of Royal Marine casualties fills me with deep sadness and anger beyond my powers of description.
We are watching a game of poker, nothing less. The chips are the lives lost and the lives still to be lost. WMD, happy clappy crowds of liberated Iraqis, links with al Q, where are they? We`ve been down the "what about N Korea" etc road many times before.
What`s so f^&king special about Iraq?
The Elvis impersonator in N Korea is more of a threat to me. He probably has a delivery system capable of reaching the Northern Territory. Depending on weather conditions, the fall-out will move east to Sydney and the Gold Coast, or west to Perth.
This will probably be the last time that Britain can take part in military action of it`s own choice. Soon, there will be a Euro foreign policy and a Euro Army. Whose ends will they serve? Certainly not GBs. Herman lost two world wars, but in the end, GB will be sidelined.
Deutchsland Uber Alles.
How many times did that cult promise to show us the proof? Whilst moving troops into theatre" just in case".
Any loss of life caused by the wheeler dealers in Washington or London is tragic, of course. The relatively high rate of British casualties, and most of all, of Royal Marine casualties fills me with deep sadness and anger beyond my powers of description.
We are watching a game of poker, nothing less. The chips are the lives lost and the lives still to be lost. WMD, happy clappy crowds of liberated Iraqis, links with al Q, where are they? We`ve been down the "what about N Korea" etc road many times before.
What`s so f^&king special about Iraq?
The Elvis impersonator in N Korea is more of a threat to me. He probably has a delivery system capable of reaching the Northern Territory. Depending on weather conditions, the fall-out will move east to Sydney and the Gold Coast, or west to Perth.
This will probably be the last time that Britain can take part in military action of it`s own choice. Soon, there will be a Euro foreign policy and a Euro Army. Whose ends will they serve? Certainly not GBs. Herman lost two world wars, but in the end, GB will be sidelined.
Deutchsland Uber Alles.
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Artist
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Rob
Agree. But..... where is it going to end?
Rumsfeld is giving the Syrians a hard time, also the Iranians the same.
Ifen it keeps up like this it is going to cause more bad feeling than soft mick.
Maybe the USA have the man power and the resources. The UK haven't got anywhere near the same.
The question has to be asked......Just how many countries can you accuse of International terrorism?
And. More importantly can you prove it.
Utopia is a long, long, long way from coming to fruition.
Exparanto was invented to remove the barriers.
Let us just all hope that sanity is found ASAP.
aye steve evans
It is a big worry (no messtins)
Agree. But..... where is it going to end?
Rumsfeld is giving the Syrians a hard time, also the Iranians the same.
Ifen it keeps up like this it is going to cause more bad feeling than soft mick.
Maybe the USA have the man power and the resources. The UK haven't got anywhere near the same.
The question has to be asked......Just how many countries can you accuse of International terrorism?
And. More importantly can you prove it.
Utopia is a long, long, long way from coming to fruition.
Exparanto was invented to remove the barriers.
Let us just all hope that sanity is found ASAP.
aye steve evans
It is a big worry (no messtins)
