Im training at the moment and doing weights at the gym. I know that you need to give at least 48 hours for your muscles to recover but after 3 days they're still aching. Its annoying because I want to crack on with training but can't because I know its not good practise doing heavy weights with sore muscles.
Anyone empathise?
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Aching Muscles
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I love beasting
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- Joined: Mon 12 Jan, 2004 9:41 am
- Location: Manchester
Aching Muscles
Uni in Sepember
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I love beasting
- Member
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Mon 12 Jan, 2004 9:41 am
- Location: Manchester
Aching muscles
If you're training different muscle groups each time you go to the gym, the aches should go away in time for the next round.
Remember, the pain is from lactic acid buildup-the product of using more oxygen than goes into the muscles, you are not hurting yourself.
Remember, the pain is from lactic acid buildup-the product of using more oxygen than goes into the muscles, you are not hurting yourself.
"Poor Ike, it won't be a bit like the Army. He'll find it very frustrating. He'll sit here and he'll say, 'Do this! Do that!' And nothing will happen."
Harry Truman
Harry Truman
This feeling you are getting in its basic form means that you are doing the business in the gym! When you train you are in fact bombarding the muscles with hard work and as a result of this the fibres in the muscle get stretched and tear ever so slightly. The bodies response is to repair them and then build them bigger and stronger to withstand similar punishment next time round. However its not the training alone that will do this but the rest period after and it goes to say that if the rest period is longer then there will be greater time for the muscle to rebuild itself. 'If you keep picking the scab it will never heal' , meaning if you keep training with no let up you will just 'burn out' and tax the body of the resources it needs to get fitter/stronger.
'Every man an Emperor'
I used to get the soreness quite bad until I changed my warm down! I now do 20 mins relaxed swim and stretch out all major muscle groups in the water, ill then have 10 mins in the sauna to get the blood circulation to the muscles and surface. give it a go.
Aye,
wilson
Aye,
wilson
The only thing that stops your body before you pass out is your mind. Never give in!
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anglo-saxon
- Guest
No offense to df2inaus, but your dead wrong mate. Gunner 75 is more on track.
Firstly: It is most definitely not caused by lactic acid. Here's what you need to know about lactic acid...
The expression lactic acid, or lactate, is used commonly when describe the pain felt during exhaustive exercise, or within a period (often experssin days) following such exercise. To explain what lactic acid is we first have to look briefly into how the working muscles use energy. Actively contracting muscles obtain Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP) from glucose stored in the blood stream and the breakdown of glycogen stored in the muscles. Initially, pyruvic acid and small amounts of ATP are generated from the breakdown of glucose. The pyruvic acid, mixed with oxygen, is converted to carbon dioxide, water, and ATP. When muscles contract vigorously for long periods, the circulatory system begins to lose ground in the delivery of oxygen. In these conditions most of the pyruvic acid produced in the breakdown of glucose is converted to lactic acid (LA). As the lactate is produced in the muscles it leaks out into the blood and is carried around the body. If this condition continues the functioning of the body will become impaired and the muscles will fatigue very quickly. When oxygen becomes more available the lactic acid is converted to pyruvic acid and then into carbon dioxide, water and ATP.
Lactic acid (lactate) is not:
· responsible for the burn in the muscles when exercising very fast;
· responsible for the soreness you experience in the 48 hours following a hard session; and
· is not a waste product.
Lactate is produced by the body all day long and is a key chemical that is used to dispose of dietary carbohydrate and, you will like this, also helps you from getting fat. During a hard session, 50% of the lactate produced is used by the muscles to form glycogen which provides you with more energy.
The "lactate shuttle" involves the following series of events:
· As we exercise pyruvate is formed;
· When insufficient oxygen is available to breakdown the pyruvate then lactate is produced;
· Lactate enters the surrounding muscle cells, tissue and blood;
· The muscle cells and tissues receiving the lactate either breakdown the lactate to fuel (ATP) for immediate use or use it in the creation of glycogen;
· The glycogen then remains in the cells until energy is required.
Post-exercise stretching and leg elevation (lie on your bag with your feet on a chair/bench etc.) will help help to dissipate "stale" blood that has been hanging around in your blood-gorged muscle fibres (which occured during exercise). Sure, excess lactic will be drained away, but so to will other impurities, such as Co2.
Note: Deep breathing in your minute (or whatever) rest beteen sets is therefore critical to maintaining your energy level during your workout.
Also, make sure you properly warm up with the FOUR warmup elements:
1. Cardio-pulmonary stimulation (such as jogging for a few minutes, interspersed with a couple of light sprints, just to get the blood flowing and the body temp up).
2. Light strength training (a few push-ups, sit-ups, dips, squats, dorsal raises, etc.) just to wake the muscles up, get them warm and increase their elasticity.
3. Flexibility: This includes PASSIVE (no bouncing) stretching of all the major muscle groups, plus some mobility exercise for the joins and associated connective tissue (arm rotations, leg rotations, etc.).
4. Balance. Balance is a key ingredient of any sprts/fitness activity whether we like it or not. Balance can be improved with practice and shoud be! It can be as simple as standing on one leg when stretching the opposing quads. Look online for some examples. This is very important to avoid injury and improve confidence!
Finally, don't forget that the warm-up is not mere physical preparation, but you are also taking yourself from a mental resting state to a mental working state.
Failure to warm-up or to warm-up properly will probably result in early fatigue during your workout and may lead to injury.
A "warm down" (not cool down) is also important for all of the same reasons. Take time to stretch, parcitice flexibility and balance, and allow your cardio-pulmonary systems (and brain!) to settle down post-ex.
As for the pain itslef:
The pain is caused by microscopic tears in the fibers of the muscles and connective tissues (the ligaments that connect bones to other bones, and the tendons that connect muscles to bones) in your body.
This "microtrauma" may sound harmful, but is in fact it is the the natural response of your muscles when they experience work. This is the primary reason it is so important that you get enough rest between specific muscle workouts. Each time you work out with weights, you cause this micro-"damage" and obtain these tiny tears in your muscles; they need ample resting time to rebuild and become even stronger, bigger, and more firm. Look at it this way: When you were born, you had all of the muscle fibres you will ever have. It is a myth that we increase muscles fibres. We do not! What we do by performing progressive resistance training (weights or whatveer) is increase the size of our existing muscle fibers. The grow because they are torn slightly during the exercise then they recover and improve upon themselves (something akin to making scar tissue). Hence, the muscle growth.
And no, you do not necessarily need three days to recover from a workout. I train two days on, one day off without ill-effect. In fact, it works really well for me. Everybody is different, though.
The comment about the sauna was well-placed. Saunas are great for this healing of the muscles and connective tissue fibres, as are hot baths (especially with Epsom salts). The reason for this is because the heat causes fresh blood, which of course carries the nutrients, O2, etc., neccessary for the healing process, to the muscles. Ideally, one would alternate between hot and cold. This is why a sauna is sometimes preferred, because you can step out of the sauna and into a cool (not cold!) shower and back into the sauna. This alternation of hot and cold will ensure that blood is brought to the muscles and then forced away, and back again. Works like a dream and many physios recommend it! Also,, and additional benefit of either a sauna or a very hot bath is that you will sweat out impurities from your body. The skin is the most important excretary organ in the body and is capable of getting rid of huge amounts of tixins ffrom the body if you just let it. Make sure you take a liter or so of good water into the bath/sauna with you to replace body fluids and avoid getting dehydrated.
But don't take my word for it. I am just a former Brit Army PTI/personal trainer, with a drgree in Phyisical Education. There are plenty of reputable web sites to pull this stuff from or go to the library.
Bottom line: Between workouts...
1. Get proper sleep (8 hrs, at least one of which should be before midnight - most healing will occur during sleep time).
2. Drink plenty of fluids (good water!!!) each day. I weigh 210 lbs, so I drink 2/3 of that number, expressed in ounces, of reverse osmosis water a day - 140 ozs!. Helps with all sorts of things, including metal clarity, purging of impurities, celular integrity, organ functionality...the list goes on and on!
3. Eat properly! Get plenty of QUALITY protein. This cannot be stressed enough. If you eat junk, you WILL NOT perform well ("step away from the MacDonald's"!), and your body WILL NOT heal properly or efficiently. Eat a couple of portions (6 oz) of chicken (baked) a day (I eat 18 oz a day). That'll set you up a treat! Eat only fresh water fish occasionally, if any, as thy are generally filled with contaminenets and heavy metals these days. Brown and wild rice is a great source of quality carbs. Wash and cook it thoroughly. I eat about 1/2 a cup per meal of mixed brown/wild rice. Veggies are great, but they are crap these days as the soil has been over-farmed and no longer contains the nutrient value it used to. I take Greens+ (concentrated green organic veg powder with vitamins and minerals) every day in a power shake that I make myself (if anyone is interested in this concoction that does the body MUCH good, let me know). Try to limit your alcohol intake (especially beer). Far too much sugar in beer for your body to deal with, plus the microorganisms that lurk in unpasturaised beer.
4. Stretch on your "off" days as well, especially after (or even in) the sauna/hot bath!
Good luck with this! Let me know how you get on.
Cheers,
A-S
Firstly: It is most definitely not caused by lactic acid. Here's what you need to know about lactic acid...
The expression lactic acid, or lactate, is used commonly when describe the pain felt during exhaustive exercise, or within a period (often experssin days) following such exercise. To explain what lactic acid is we first have to look briefly into how the working muscles use energy. Actively contracting muscles obtain Adenosine Triphosphate (ATP) from glucose stored in the blood stream and the breakdown of glycogen stored in the muscles. Initially, pyruvic acid and small amounts of ATP are generated from the breakdown of glucose. The pyruvic acid, mixed with oxygen, is converted to carbon dioxide, water, and ATP. When muscles contract vigorously for long periods, the circulatory system begins to lose ground in the delivery of oxygen. In these conditions most of the pyruvic acid produced in the breakdown of glucose is converted to lactic acid (LA). As the lactate is produced in the muscles it leaks out into the blood and is carried around the body. If this condition continues the functioning of the body will become impaired and the muscles will fatigue very quickly. When oxygen becomes more available the lactic acid is converted to pyruvic acid and then into carbon dioxide, water and ATP.
Lactic acid (lactate) is not:
· responsible for the burn in the muscles when exercising very fast;
· responsible for the soreness you experience in the 48 hours following a hard session; and
· is not a waste product.
Lactate is produced by the body all day long and is a key chemical that is used to dispose of dietary carbohydrate and, you will like this, also helps you from getting fat. During a hard session, 50% of the lactate produced is used by the muscles to form glycogen which provides you with more energy.
The "lactate shuttle" involves the following series of events:
· As we exercise pyruvate is formed;
· When insufficient oxygen is available to breakdown the pyruvate then lactate is produced;
· Lactate enters the surrounding muscle cells, tissue and blood;
· The muscle cells and tissues receiving the lactate either breakdown the lactate to fuel (ATP) for immediate use or use it in the creation of glycogen;
· The glycogen then remains in the cells until energy is required.
Post-exercise stretching and leg elevation (lie on your bag with your feet on a chair/bench etc.) will help help to dissipate "stale" blood that has been hanging around in your blood-gorged muscle fibres (which occured during exercise). Sure, excess lactic will be drained away, but so to will other impurities, such as Co2.
Note: Deep breathing in your minute (or whatever) rest beteen sets is therefore critical to maintaining your energy level during your workout.
Also, make sure you properly warm up with the FOUR warmup elements:
1. Cardio-pulmonary stimulation (such as jogging for a few minutes, interspersed with a couple of light sprints, just to get the blood flowing and the body temp up).
2. Light strength training (a few push-ups, sit-ups, dips, squats, dorsal raises, etc.) just to wake the muscles up, get them warm and increase their elasticity.
3. Flexibility: This includes PASSIVE (no bouncing) stretching of all the major muscle groups, plus some mobility exercise for the joins and associated connective tissue (arm rotations, leg rotations, etc.).
4. Balance. Balance is a key ingredient of any sprts/fitness activity whether we like it or not. Balance can be improved with practice and shoud be! It can be as simple as standing on one leg when stretching the opposing quads. Look online for some examples. This is very important to avoid injury and improve confidence!
Finally, don't forget that the warm-up is not mere physical preparation, but you are also taking yourself from a mental resting state to a mental working state.
Failure to warm-up or to warm-up properly will probably result in early fatigue during your workout and may lead to injury.
A "warm down" (not cool down) is also important for all of the same reasons. Take time to stretch, parcitice flexibility and balance, and allow your cardio-pulmonary systems (and brain!) to settle down post-ex.
As for the pain itslef:
The pain is caused by microscopic tears in the fibers of the muscles and connective tissues (the ligaments that connect bones to other bones, and the tendons that connect muscles to bones) in your body.
This "microtrauma" may sound harmful, but is in fact it is the the natural response of your muscles when they experience work. This is the primary reason it is so important that you get enough rest between specific muscle workouts. Each time you work out with weights, you cause this micro-"damage" and obtain these tiny tears in your muscles; they need ample resting time to rebuild and become even stronger, bigger, and more firm. Look at it this way: When you were born, you had all of the muscle fibres you will ever have. It is a myth that we increase muscles fibres. We do not! What we do by performing progressive resistance training (weights or whatveer) is increase the size of our existing muscle fibers. The grow because they are torn slightly during the exercise then they recover and improve upon themselves (something akin to making scar tissue). Hence, the muscle growth.
And no, you do not necessarily need three days to recover from a workout. I train two days on, one day off without ill-effect. In fact, it works really well for me. Everybody is different, though.
The comment about the sauna was well-placed. Saunas are great for this healing of the muscles and connective tissue fibres, as are hot baths (especially with Epsom salts). The reason for this is because the heat causes fresh blood, which of course carries the nutrients, O2, etc., neccessary for the healing process, to the muscles. Ideally, one would alternate between hot and cold. This is why a sauna is sometimes preferred, because you can step out of the sauna and into a cool (not cold!) shower and back into the sauna. This alternation of hot and cold will ensure that blood is brought to the muscles and then forced away, and back again. Works like a dream and many physios recommend it! Also,, and additional benefit of either a sauna or a very hot bath is that you will sweat out impurities from your body. The skin is the most important excretary organ in the body and is capable of getting rid of huge amounts of tixins ffrom the body if you just let it. Make sure you take a liter or so of good water into the bath/sauna with you to replace body fluids and avoid getting dehydrated.
But don't take my word for it. I am just a former Brit Army PTI/personal trainer, with a drgree in Phyisical Education. There are plenty of reputable web sites to pull this stuff from or go to the library.
Bottom line: Between workouts...
1. Get proper sleep (8 hrs, at least one of which should be before midnight - most healing will occur during sleep time).
2. Drink plenty of fluids (good water!!!) each day. I weigh 210 lbs, so I drink 2/3 of that number, expressed in ounces, of reverse osmosis water a day - 140 ozs!. Helps with all sorts of things, including metal clarity, purging of impurities, celular integrity, organ functionality...the list goes on and on!
3. Eat properly! Get plenty of QUALITY protein. This cannot be stressed enough. If you eat junk, you WILL NOT perform well ("step away from the MacDonald's"!), and your body WILL NOT heal properly or efficiently. Eat a couple of portions (6 oz) of chicken (baked) a day (I eat 18 oz a day). That'll set you up a treat! Eat only fresh water fish occasionally, if any, as thy are generally filled with contaminenets and heavy metals these days. Brown and wild rice is a great source of quality carbs. Wash and cook it thoroughly. I eat about 1/2 a cup per meal of mixed brown/wild rice. Veggies are great, but they are crap these days as the soil has been over-farmed and no longer contains the nutrient value it used to. I take Greens+ (concentrated green organic veg powder with vitamins and minerals) every day in a power shake that I make myself (if anyone is interested in this concoction that does the body MUCH good, let me know). Try to limit your alcohol intake (especially beer). Far too much sugar in beer for your body to deal with, plus the microorganisms that lurk in unpasturaised beer.
4. Stretch on your "off" days as well, especially after (or even in) the sauna/hot bath!
Good luck with this! Let me know how you get on.
Cheers,
A-S
Nice post. Couldn't you just have summarised? 
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anglo-saxon
- Guest
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anglo-saxon
- Guest
Anglo, good stuff...looks like I was under the wrong impression at least!!
Beasting (odd handle??)...if you've just started/increased your training, that could be it...I ached like (expletive deleted) for the first week or so of a hard routine (4 days on, 2 days swim, 1 day rest), after that was fine with proper warm up/down (by the way, a gentle swim, even just messing around with a mate (preferably fit and female) in the leisure pool will work wonders as a warm down after the gym)...if you're still regularly getting long-lasting aches, there's something wrong somewhere...the first week or two is just down to your body not being used to the amount of work you want it to do...like playing your first match of the season after a gentle summer.
Beasting (odd handle??)...if you've just started/increased your training, that could be it...I ached like (expletive deleted) for the first week or so of a hard routine (4 days on, 2 days swim, 1 day rest), after that was fine with proper warm up/down (by the way, a gentle swim, even just messing around with a mate (preferably fit and female) in the leisure pool will work wonders as a warm down after the gym)...if you're still regularly getting long-lasting aches, there's something wrong somewhere...the first week or two is just down to your body not being used to the amount of work you want it to do...like playing your first match of the season after a gentle summer.
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anglo-saxon
- Guest
The body is an incredible and complex mechanism about which we have actually learned very little. Of course, I am pretty much generalizing in my posting above, recognizing that everyone is different. Thr truth is that some people are pre-destined to be "fat bodies", some will have a hard time putting any weight on at all, while oters will seem to be able to almost effortlessley maintain the perfect state of fitness (I hate those guys). For most, a degree of effort and determination is required.
There comes a time though, when we must be psychologically balanced and comfortable with ourselves. The alternative is getting stressed-out all the time and that's not good. Of the three basic body types (Ectomorph, endomorph, and mesomorph), the mesomorph will, of course, be pre-disposed to being capable of getting stronger, faster.
We all do what we can in the time and within the knowlege and experience that we have. It's good to learn and explore new ways of doing things. In fact, "periodization" is becoming the watchword for many types of training, recognizing that a stale workout regimen causes one to become ill-motivated and physically plateau.
Just thinking out loud after my second large Balvenie before bed. Tomorrow's my off-day - I get to sleep until 07:30 and all I ave to do is study! Yeeha!
There comes a time though, when we must be psychologically balanced and comfortable with ourselves. The alternative is getting stressed-out all the time and that's not good. Of the three basic body types (Ectomorph, endomorph, and mesomorph), the mesomorph will, of course, be pre-disposed to being capable of getting stronger, faster.
We all do what we can in the time and within the knowlege and experience that we have. It's good to learn and explore new ways of doing things. In fact, "periodization" is becoming the watchword for many types of training, recognizing that a stale workout regimen causes one to become ill-motivated and physically plateau.
Just thinking out loud after my second large Balvenie before bed. Tomorrow's my off-day - I get to sleep until 07:30 and all I ave to do is study! Yeeha!
