THIS HAS REALLY GOT MY ATTENTION

[Wholley]

Illegal immigration into the US is about to be rewarded.
Bush has said that a"Work Permit"system should be offered to illegals
who have managed to avoid deportation by the INS for more than a
year.What the Frell is this?They are illegal!!Chuck them out or make them
do it the right way,as I did.I'm beginning to wonder about this Administration.If this happens we are going to have an immigration nightmare way past that of the UK and France.Shit,it's bad enough now!
Feliz Navidad.Oh,I can't say that as it's Christian,only Minoras and Cresents are allowed here.
Merry...Whatever!!
Sorry to spoil the spirit of the Season,
but this REALLY ticks me off.
Shalom.
Mustapha.

[Aldo]

And I thought it was bad over here. Why is there no one protesting against this but when some judge wants the 10 commandments put outside his court the protests make international headlines.

[Frank S.]

Among those who protest, I think you'll find many, if not mostly, 'legal' immigrants such as Wholley or myself.
Not that it will matter in the end.
You have to understand the nature of this administration: it is neither conservative nor liberal nor neo-anything. It is revolutionary and so far has gotten its way at every turn.
It's high time to get past 'personality' politics and see the agenda for what it is.
Financially, it is about taxing income and making capital tx free, i.e.: taxing the living hell out of people who have to work for a living and enriching those whose capital is earning them income. 30% of what I make goes to Uncle Sam and when I get a bonus, it's 50% to Uncle Sam.

Socially, it is about getting rid of social security, medicare and unemployment benefits. All these being considered unconstitutional, yet when you're old and/or sick, you'd be glad for those programs.
It's also about prohibiting the teaching of the 'theory of evolution' and blurring the separation of church and state to the point of extinction (not enough space to really delve into this here, but, baby, hold on to your hat: we're talking radical Christianity here).

Politically, it's about military adventurism. Not experiment, adventurism. Anyone who sees this as alarmist needs to read the writings of administration 'luminaries' from their own website:
http://www.newamericancentury.org/
It's about making a tiny segment of America stronger, not making America safer.

The agenda was out there for years (maybe 11 or so) and has been in effect for three. Still, people refuse to see it and those who push it for what they really are.

Four more years, I say.

Yeah, call me a cynic.

[Wholley]

Aldo.
It seems our respective countries are being overun.
I left the UK in 1985 to make a better life in the US.
Did it the right way and now I feel I'm being smacked in the face
by the the very government I swore to serve.We might just bug out
to OZ or NZ.My Eldest is in Brisbane and I have family in Huntly NZ.
What a world.
Muzzletof.
Happy Chanaca,
Yoseph Sipowitz-Wholley.

[Wholley]

Frank.
You? a cynic?Never.
merry.........Holiday.
Hymie.

[Frank S.]

It's ironic, really: the dems would do the same exact thing if they were in charge.
Remember seeing their debate on Spanish American TV (whatever that is). They all stumbled on each other trying to address the crowd in Spanish, telling them how illegals should be provided with driver's licenses, etc.

Happy hannukah, you mishegunneh!

Yours,

Mordechai Horowitz.

[Aldo]

We might just bug out to OZ

Couldn't let harry know he made the bettter choice though could we ...

...but I think he did, at this time Oz is the more American and more British than the US and UK. Hopefully with the new elections coming up we will start to see a change in our countries but i fear it's wishfull thinking. Only massive public uprise (not revolution) would get the ball rolling for sure. We need to get our voices heard.

[Wholley]

Oi Vay Frank
Now Im all
Gershtant.
That is three lines right?
Wholley.

[Frank S.]

Oy, Yosef, what a badhkin you are! That's okay, you're still a gutte neshome in my book...
I'm just tired of giving all my gelt to this khalish chaza, you know? Feh!


Erm... Should we try ebonics?

[df2inaus]

Aldo,

at this time Oz is the more American and more British than the US and UK

You couldn't have put it better. Though Australia does have its crime problems, particularly In Sydney, the weather is second-to-none and the standard of living is high.

As far as Foreign Affairs goes, this small antipiodean nation is rising fast.
Here we have a Commonwealth nation that treats phoney refugees the way they deserve to be treated, and is rebuilding its military without feeling guilty. PM's Martin and Clark should take a good look at what a small country can achieve in a few years with a leader like John Howard who accepts geopolitical realties and deals with them. Go Johnny Go!

Canada and NZ are large-scale, left-wing, socialist experiments heading down a slippery slope to 100% dependency on the United States for defence. Their international influence is fading fast if not entirely gone.

I'm gradually persuading the wife to move to Oz, it may take years, but we'll get there sometime

[Wholley]

On further research it only applies to our Hispanic brothers.
I can just imagine the Border Patrol trying to contain the inrush if Bush
gets his way.Come live a life of crime for a year,then we will forgive
you and give you a Green Card thats actually pink.
Che Pasa,Amigo and thanks for your Job.
Vincente Fox-Wholley.

[Frank S.]

Whoa...

I just had an epiphany...

There was something which kept churning in the back of my mind, about the administration's financial projections. See, they until recently, used to comment about 2010 and sometimes beyond, with Bush saying with a straight face that "we will not pass any financial burden to the next administration and future generation".

Here's the switch: now they speak only as far as 2008. Which of course would be the end of his second term. See, everything from social security, medicare, even homeland security actually finances his tax cuts.
For instance if you get 3 billions for a homeland security package, 1.5 billion will be diverted to financing the tax cuts.
Same sort of thing with social security/medicare: you take the projected earnings for those programs (taken from the projected payroll and income tax paid by the American worker) and then you borrow against those future revenues.

Anyway, we all know we're having record deficits. I remembered the "party like it's 1999" thread and started thinking about the 'pig in the python': the baby-boom generation closing in on retirement age.
Who's going to pay for their social security benefits then?
With a relatively small younger generation, who'll also have to maintain decent standards of living, in addition to paying for us old farts...

Maybe the situation is more urgent than 15 years in the future.
It's not inconceivable that we need to 'legalize' millions of illegal immigrants in order to tax them.

See, an undocumented lettuce picker in Salinas doesn't pay taxes. But if he now can work legally, he'll move up the social ladder, maybe get a job as a security guard at the local supermarket and then, we can tax him.
Of course, who'll pick up the lettuce the market sells, you ask..?
Well, we're not talking about ending illegal immigration, here, just putting it to another use. Pablo and Miguel and Jaime will always find their way across the border, and some of their predecessors will be stuck in low-wage jobs contributing to our retirement.
Maybe that's the idea....

[nbforrest]

Frank,

I am impressed with your moment of clarity. Legalize and tax the wetbacks.

I have done some book buying over the holidays. My dear mother in law gives me 50 to 100 $s every Christmas and a three hour trip to the bookstore. I was doing some reading and browsing and picked a book whose premise is that the new Empire is not national but financial. The real political war in this country is not between the Left and the Right as we understood them even 40 years ago, but between two groups interested in who owns and uses the capital. Both the capital gain and the initial capital of production. George Bush is not a Republican in the same sense Ronnie Ray gun was. George doesn't care about anything but furthering the financial Empire. Any talk of freedom or morality is pocketed in the cause of international finance. The Democrats realizing they can't stop this want to control the income and redirect it to the special interest groups who keep them in power. These same groups have a vested interest, given their nature and origins, in destroying the culture of Western Civilization., One based on common law and a respect for morality as defined in the Christian faith. The authors of the books on this subject make no bones about their own socialist world view. All in all I am looking forward to pursuing this line of study.

"Yup Maw, we done a dangerous thing when we taught that thar boy his letters and lairnt him tuh read."

[Whitey]

I was almost crucified at school for questioning the illegal alien rights ideology.
You know what, this is the Yankee's country, let the f@#k it up if they want to. By now it should be obvious that there is nothing we can do on the citizen (pesant) level.
We talk about security and terror but leave the Mexican border wide open, dude this whole terror threat should be viewed as a hoax and a scheme to grab power by that fact alone. I used to live in Imperial Beach, the Tiauanna estuary was right infront of my apartment, on the weekend it looked like human waves running across, they'd trample private property, steal cars, attack anyone trying to stop them, damage anything in their way, even hurt themselves in the process, and everytime they broke some stuff my rent went up. Yep look at California, a testimate to the wonders and globalizationist ideals on open borders, look at 9/11, a testimate to minorities in immigration not doing their job and letting other people(Minorities) slide (La Rasa) and lookie what happened. But hey I'm a racist's.
What good is it to be a soldier trying to defend the Constitution and our laws if Congress won't?
I know people with masters degrees who can't find work and I know construction workers who can't afford to work because the corporate out sourcing and illegals throwing jobs out of the US and driving the labor wages down to the point no one can make it unless they live like pesants.

[Frank S.]

Bush to Seek Immigrant Benefit Protection
Plan to Include System Enabling Undocumented Workers to Gain Legal Status
By Mike Allen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, January 4, 2004; Page A05


CRAWFORD, Tex., Jan. 3 -- President Bush will propose protections for the Social Security taxes paid by the workers who would come into the country under massive changes to immigration laws he plans to announce on Wednesday, Republican officials said Saturday.
Bush's plan would make it possible for such workers from Mexico and perhaps other countries to collect retirement benefits without being penalized by their home countries for the years they spent working in the United States, the officials said.

Officials began releasing details of Bush's plan shortly before Christmas and provided new details over the weekend. The officials said Bush's plan will contain a new system to help workers who want to enter from Mexico or other countries if they have jobs waiting for them. It also includes a mechanism for some undocumented residents to continue working in the United States and get on a path to legal status.

Undocumented workers now pay billions of dollars annually into Social Security but do not collect benefits because they give their employers fraudulent Social Security numbers.

Frank Sharry, executive director of the National Immigration Forum, an immigrant advocacy group, said he fears the Social Security plan could be used as an incentive for workers to go home instead of settling in the United States, which could create what he called "a permanent class of temporary workers with no political power."

"The knock that will be put on Republicans is that they want immigrants as workers but not as voters," Sharry said.

Bush is scheduled to announce the package five days before he meets in Mexico with President Vicente Fox, who has been prodding the White House since Bush was inaugurated to change an immigration system that has resulted in at least 8 million undocumented immigrants -- about half of whom are Mexican -- living in the United States.

In Mexico, analysts and officials reacted with cautious optimism to early descriptions of the plan, saying that they viewed the proposal as a sign of markedly improving relations between Bush and Fox.

Bush worked to develop warm relations with Mexico when he was Texas governor, and his first international trip as president was to Mexico. But the administration began trying to harden the borders after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, and Bush distanced himself from Fox after Mexico failed to use its seat on the United Nations Security Council to support the U.S.-led attack on Iraq.

Fox has said that he and Bush will restart immigration talks privately at the Summit of the Americas, a meeting of the hemisphere's leaders to be held in Monterrey, in the Mexican border state of Baja California. Bush will make his fourth presidential trip to Mexico for the summit on Jan. 12 and 13.

Fox said last month that the two countries are working on agreements to allow Mexicans "to go and come each year as many times as they want, without problems, and so that they can work with documents in the United States."

Bush's plans, many of which are similar to ideas endorsed by the Democratic presidential candidates in their platforms and debates, would be the most broad changes to immigration law since a bill signed by President Ronald Reagan in 1986.

The immigration plan is Bush's first policy announcement of his reelection year, and aides said it was calibrated by Bush's senior adviser, Karl Rove. An official on Bush's political team said the proposal will help bolster support for the president with Hispanic voters, who are regarded by both parties as a constituency that is largely up for grabs, and in the states of Florida and New Mexico, both of which Bush barely won in 2000. Bush travels to Florida on Thursday.

The proposals will be a test for Bush because some House Republicans are skeptical and even hostile to the idea of liberalizing immigration controls. The Bush official said that in trying to persuade conservative lawmakers to back the package, the administration will contend that it reflects Republican values by rewarding work. The administration will also argue that the plan would enhance national security by making it more likely that immigrants with tips about terrorism would cooperate with authorities, because they would not fear deportation.

Officials said Bush's proposals draw heavily on a bill introduced by Sen. John McCain, his rival in the 2000 primaries, and Reps. Jim Kolbe and Jeff Flake, all Arizona Republicans. That bill would create a Web-based Labor Department database of jobs that would be open first to U.S. workers and then to foreigners, who could be admitted with a "temporary worker" visa available for a maximum of six years.

The Arizonans' bill proposes a new type of visa for workers who are now in the United States illegally. They could come forward and receive this visa for three years. After that, the formerly undocumented worker could apply for a temporary visa like those held by workers under the electronic job registry.

Immigration reform is a top priority of Bush's backers in the business community. Daniel T. Griswold, an immigration expert at the free-enterprise-oriented Cato Institute, called Bush's proposal "compassionate conservatism at its best -- a market-driven approach allowing supply and demand to get together in the labor market."