North Korea

[Ex-URNU-Student]

i fully get your point there, jason; taking out the leadership of a starving country won't fill any stomachs. thing is, the north korean population is a lot better off than most of rest of the third world, or at least, could be - they're (surprisingly) very well educated, it's just that their demented leaders have squandered their talents and pissed away their potential.

i mean, the only difference between south korea and north korea is that the north is a dictatorship and the south is a democracy - the people are the same, the landscape is the same, the resources are the same. it's just that fifty years of criminal neglect by criminally insane communists has spunked the potential of twenty million people right up against the wall. there's no reason at all why north korea can't be as healthy and wealthy as the south. they're a clever and resourceful people. they have skilled workers. they have universities and hospitals and all the seeds of becomming a pretty nice place to live. they just need to - excuse the rhetoric - cast off the shackles of their feckwit "leaders".



it's not a case of having to build them a country from the ground up. just dust their current one off and patch up a few of the bigger holes. if we have the chance to dig these people out of the dirt, why shouldn't we...?

You sound suspiciously like Donald Rumsfeld. Once again they said similar things about Iraq, well educated middle class etc, but look how difficult it is to rebuild in practice. Every estimation they made about reconstructing Iraq was wildly off the mark. Its costing them double what they initally thought and the troops are way overstretched and demoralised. Sorry but i think you're straying into the realms of wishful thinking, like most of these neo-conservatives.

[munky]

You sound suspiciously like Donald Rumsfeld.

ah, rumsfeld...my most able pupil...



...shame he strayed to the dark side...

Once again they said similar things about Iraq, well educated middle class etc, but look how difficult it is to rebuild in practice. Every estimation they made about reconstructing Iraq was wildly off the mark. Its costing them double what they initally thought and the troops are way overstretched and demoralised.

how long has it been since the war there ended? all of four whole months? rather premature to say that the reconstruction of an entire country is going to be a complete disaster, is it not...

...?

these things obviously take many, many years. look at west germany's reconstruction. look at japan's. highly, highly traumatic at the time, and a long, expensive, complicated struggle to put the pieces back together again. but isn't it worth it?

for more contemporary examples - look at certain countries in the balkans. countries torn apart in the most terrible way, but slowly and surely becomming something so much better than they were before. looking at iraq, right now, yes, you could certainly argue that the tactics being used for reconstruction could be improved, but - playing devil's advocate - surely all this practice would mean that the post-war reconstruction of north korea would be all the more efficient, speedy and effective...?

...just takes a bit more than four months, that's all...

Sorry but i think you're straying into the realms of wishful thinking, like most of these neo-conservatives.

it's not wishful thinking. it's just cause and effect





...and, for the record, i'm not a neo-conservative. i'm a terribly, terribly old-fashioned-conservative...

[Twenty One]

We do not need to go to war with anyone folks, simply we are the intelligent ones, and most probably could close NK down in a matter of months by the food programme.The Koreans need food and they must get some from the west sometime.War is a last resort!

[CanadianHighlandFusilier]

As probably the resident Korean, allow me to present some other things to think about.

NK will probably not back down, unless gets something big in return for dismantling nuke program, which won't happen, considering Bush's stance right now. Kim Jong Il put a lot on stake here, upping the ante a lot. He can't back down. He'd lose a lot of face, which probably means a coup d'etat by the NK military, which is probably the only internal threat to him. (The general population is so brainwashed that they think the 'Great Leader' is still a god)

A war on Korean peninsula has global catastrophic consequences.
I'd bet that SK is up near, if not above top ten economic powerhouse in the world. Well, shitloads of SK manufactured stuff goes around.
In 90s, Thailand (not a very significant country economically) went into an economic slump and East Asia generally went into an economic slump. Think of what devastated SK means to the world.

IMO, NK has its back against the wall right now, politically and economically. I think if it comes to folding or going to war, I think NK leadership (esp. with that nuthead Kim Jong Il in charge) will go to war, if not just to 'save face'.
M1 Abrams vs. T54/55, T62 is rather silly, but considering that Korea has helluva a lot of mountains, it'll be a long war, though NK will get asskicked.

[Jason The Argonaut]

U.S. Says North Korea Talks Set for Aug 27 Start
Tue August 12, 2003 05:52 AM ET
SYDNEY (Reuters) - Six-nation crisis talks on North Korea's nuclear weapons program would likely begin in Beijing on August 27, U.S. Deputy Secretary of State Richard Armitage said on Tuesday.

Asked if the United States had a likely start date for the talks, Armitage told Australian Broadcasting Corp television: "Yes we do, probably starting around the 27th of this month in Beijing."

Earlier this month, North Korea and the United States said they had agreed to the six-country talks on the nuclear stand-off. China, Japan, Russia and South Korea will also attend.

Armitage's statement is the first formal indication of the date and venue for the talks, which will follow months of tension after Washington announced last October that Pyongyang was pursuing a covert nuclear weapons program.

The secretive communist state rejects the claims as interference in its internal affairs.

It's good to see that there will be talks at the end of the month, even if they are Crisis talks !

[Whitey]

Firstly N.Korea won't fight the US again, it's a 1960's Army vs. a modern military machine. It's a penesula, the hardest land feature to defend or attack from. Our subs alone could end much of its failing industry, our carriers would surround the place and b-52's would arch light the landscape. Our Marines and probably your's would land at some point and following would be armies of the coalition or whatever. Our forces would torch the countryside and we would leave. No regime change, nothing, just a mortal wound that would eventually lead to the death of the N Korean regime.

That is my opinion. N Korea is all bark and no bite. I don't think those in power there are willing to lose it.

[harry hackedoff]

Look, I`m fed up with all these scurulous remarks about our illustrious leader.
He`s the best Elvis impersonator east of Suez, and a wonderfull person. NK can manage quite nicely, thank you very much. Stick your aid where the sun don`t shine. Bastards.
Can anyone remember what it was that Clarkson said about Korean car manufacturers
Aye, One Hung Low

[Jason The Argonaut]

US wants talks to collapse: North Korea

SEOUL: North Korea Thursday accused the United States of plotting a collapse in next week’s six-nation nuclear talks to push the regional crisis to the United Nations.

The North’s government newspaper Minju Joson warned unless Washington’s “hostile policy” on Pyongyang changed, there would be no success at the three-day talks due to open in Beijing on August 27. “The US makes the breakdown of the six-party talks an established fact when the talks are yet to open, and sets forth its next action program,” it said.

It blasted as a “crazy claim” American statements that the issue could be taken to the UN Security Council if the multilateral talks end in failure. “This is an intolerable mockery of, and challenge to, the expectation of the international community which desires so ardently a positive settlement of the nuclear issue,” it said. Rodong Sinmun, the North’s ruling communist party newspaper, said in a separate commentary that the communist state “has so far made every sincere effort for the negotiated peaceful settlement of the nuclear issue.”

But the United States, Rodong said, has teamed up with South Korea to increase tensions in recent weeks ahead of the talks, citing a joint military drill which began earlier this week in South Korea.

North Korea has toughened its stance ahead of the Chinese-hosted six-way talks which will include the United States, Russia, Japan and South Korea to resolve the 10-month stand-off over Pyongyang’s nuclear weapons drive. Pyongyang has repeatedly demanded that Washington prove a policy change by agreeing to a non-aggression pact and diplomatic normalization, in addition to promising not to hinder North Korea’s international trade.

I mean this is a far fetch claim buy North Korea that the US wants talks to collapse just so it can go to the United Nations. I don't blame the US and South Korea joining in a military drill. I mean just in case the shit does hit the fan, both nations must work along side each other. So to seems like getting some practice in before the main event is a good idea. If it ever goes that far.

[Big Papa Hapa]

Ah, but the North Koreans have already struck...(has anyone ever had 'kim chi'?) Beware that highly secret, but nonetheless effective NWMD (Nutrional Weapon of Mass Destruction), it burns the tongues right out of the mouths of those who ingest it, thereby reducing communication ability to nil! Aiee!

[mikkel]

this may sound arrogant but true the olny threat from north korea is nuclear the conventional threat from north korea is quite limited even south korea alone could kick north koreas collective ass not to mention if the US and UK join in. :infinity:

[Whitey]

NK, well who says the UK would be involved? We should maybe ask China if they want some good trade deals for exchange in slapping their little brother back into line. Or we could do nothing at all.

[mikkel]

that was just an example there would probably be no reason for the UK to join in sorry if I caused any confusion

[chunky from york]

Big Papa,
I am with you a 100%, kimchee should be banned I only ate it once and after my Korean mate told me what it was and how it is made I will never repeat NEVER touch the stuff again.


It should be collected and held under UN supervision

[Frank S.]

I kinda like Kimchi, especially with wasabi on the side (yeah I know the stuff's Japanese, but what the hell, me like spice, especially Gerry Halliwell). Kimchi, wasabi and French Bordeaux... Mmmmmh... Yum.

[CanadianHighlandFusilier]

Kimchee and wasabi? That's quite weird, man.