Restorative Justice

[JR]

Justice! there is none,Living in a rural community we very rarely see a policeman,and when you question the lack of policing the reply you get 'is form a neighbourhood watch',why should I have to rely on 'neighbourhood watch for protection.I live by a simple set of rules,anyone who enters my home without my permission forfeits his or her rights, I am not a violent person but I will stand my corner and protect my space. I have yet to meet a reformed criminal, I have seen the the cream tea and sticky bun brigade at work and the criminal will go along with them for what he can get out of it.Ok call me a cynical 'Old B*****D if you want,what I have today is what I have worked Bloody hard for and I do not intend to give up that easy.Ok I'll climb down now off the soap box. Aye JR

[gash-hand]

I think the lack of policing is not something that comes under the responsibility of the rehabilitation of offenders or the criminal justices act - thats obviously a matter for the relevent police force, lack of funds? or differing priorities perhaps?

Personally i agree with your view of protection of the inviduals rights to protect his/her property.

The point I was trying to make is that simply banging people up does nothing to eliminate the problem of drug related crime, as we have seen there have been immesurable 'get tough' measures along these lines and alls we have seen is an increase in prison populations and a growing social crime problem.

As Sullys post has proved some can, and are, capable of rehabilation. It just takes a bit more effort and a different way of thinking. If this constitutes being part of a 'cream tea and sticky bun brigade' then so be it, but if the 'hit em hard' school of thought is so great why hasn't it worked?

[Wully]

I wonder if you guys would feel so benevolent towards these scumbags if it was your grandparent who was in hospital because of the beating they received at the hands of one of them. Or if it was your home that you had worked hard for was turned into a rubbish tip after a visit from them. It's not a good feeling to return home from a night out and find your home ransacked and shit rubbed all over the walls and in the carpet. Would you still feel the same towards them if you experienced this at first hand? There is quite a good article on 'Restorative Justice' in the Daily Mail today; it's worth reading.

[Contractor]

I think this may be an 'age thing' in my case. When I was younger I was very much in favour of 'Hanging em High' & 'Birch the Barstards' approach to crime deterrence. However, as I approach my dotage I have become one of the cream cake and tea brigade as they seem to be viewed on this forum.

How many cases over the last 30 years has there been of miscarriages of justice where at the time the general consensus was to hang them? Does just one of these cases completely invalidate the case for capital punishment?

As gash rightly points out the policy of simply locking people away does not work. It doesn't prevent re-offending, the victim’s needs are not addressed and it's damn expensive. Alternatives are needed.

[THE HAPPY WANDERER]

Just to put in my two pennerth worth;;


Drug addicts--Criminals waiting to happen----Hang em

Muggers---Drug addicts that have already happened-----Hang em

Burglars---Drug addicts/Criminals feeding a habit-----Hang em

If i have missed any of the junkies/muggers/burglars/criminals that pick on soft targets for their means of feeding their pathetic habit/
then come visit me in Halifax,i can guarantee you a world of pain you will not believe-----------then hang you


Wully,with regards to your post about benevolence,My partners parents
had their house broken into whilst they were walking the dog.(Gone for only one hour)Connie is 76 Edgar is 79.Edgar has a piece of shrapnel in his skull which moves every once in a while giving him epileptic fits he dosent so much walk as shuffle and to top it all off he has parkinsons syndrome.

The police knew who was responsible but couldnt prove it,so nothing was done..It took old Edgar about 6 months to stop literally shitting him self every time he heard a strange noise,and i do mean fouling himself.

So to all you bloody do gooders out there who want the victims to meet the scumbags,see if you can find out who terrified old Edgar and let them meet up___________just make sure i am present at the time.


Hang em all and Hang em high





The happy Wanderer

[gash-hand]

Wully,

I am not feeling benelovent towards them, as I have said in numerous posts I do not condone their actions or symphaise with them. Its just that I would prefer to try to 'fix' the problem rather than to hide it away in a prison somewhere.

Unfortunatly drug related crime can't be cured simply by locking them away or administering a beating, they are addicts, they rob and steal to feed a habit.

They are already social outcasts with little hope of intergrating with society. By giving them a criminal record and prison sentence all it will add is a permenant offical record to who/what they are - their chances of making a clean break now will be virtually nil. Hence the ever continuing cycle of prison/crime/prison/crime.

The crime which isn't down to drugs is undoubtly due to insufficient discipline at home (mabay parents are druggies/alchies ?? I don't know), but the fact remains that all forms of so called 'harsh' punishment hasn't worked, OK it may have for a few but I would wager those are the people who came from a fairly good background anyway - who probably thought they were being cool by wrecking a car or house.

Its a fact that some peoples standard of living actually goes up when they enter a detention center/prison - and no I don't see that as a reflection of cushy prison routines, more as a reflection of their envy and seeming lack of a decent life.

Perhaps if we as a country hadn't decided to abolish the apprentiship programes and concentrate soly on academic performance as our measurement of personal success some of these young people might be gainfully employed.

And yes I have experienced the effects of this sort of crime first hand. Once personally when having seven shades of sh*t kicked out of my by a gang of 12 blokes and second when my mothers house was broken into and wrecked less than 6 months after my father died.

As for the Daily Mail, the only thing I would use that rag for would be wiping my ar*e - at least then I could be sure what was on the outside matched the editorial content inside.

[JR]

There is still one 'Topping shed' still in existence within the confines of one of Her Majestys Prisons,a length of hemp and a noose, I say use it,do child molesters deserve a second chance,'like hell they do' Hang em.Aye JR

And no ammount of 'mamby pamby'Oh poor dears,will ever convince me otherwise.Ok so I'm a dinosaur of a forgotten age,an age when you could leave your front door unlocked,an age when your kids could play in the streets with safety.so dont give me all that crap about reforms.

[Andy O'Pray]

Maverick,

You say that you used to come from Glasgow. You would probably not know the Glasgow of the 40's and 50's. Probably the most lawless city in the UK. That was in the days of the real hard men, not the little punks that are around today. Along came one Chief Justice, Lord Cameron, aka the hanging judge. He cleaned Glasgow up in five years.

I think that it was gash-hand who said that the old ways did not work. It did for Lord Cameron and the citizens of Glasgow. Admittedly there is a drug fraternity out there that was not present in bygone days. The law has to be harsh and come down strongly on the pushers. In Vancouver recently, a group of police officers took some pushers into a park and kicked ten colours of sh@t out of them. Why you may ask? Because they knew by charging them they would get away with a slap on the wrist. The police in question have been charged with assault. The public support for the policemen has been so overwhelming, that I would not wish to be the person to find them guilty.

It is common knowledge that the vast majority of the people in the Western world want to see a much harsher justice system. It is the tree hugging minority who get the headlines, as they are the most vocal. The old saying, "The squeaky wheel always get's greased", springs to mind. Perhaps the majority should start to voice their opinions.

Aye - Andy.

[gash-hand]

Actually I said the old ways didn't work in relation to drug related crime and I still stand by that conviction. I also think that there's a sense that all druggies / crims will get this 'easy option' type of sentencing, which I don't think will happen - they wouldn't have the resources to administer it for a start.

As with all crims that get caught they'll go through a legal and social service procedure - only those who express or show a willingness to want to change will be put forward, are some people really suggesting we shut the door on these people? So they can get caught up in the crime/prison cycle and become a bigger pain in the ar*e in a few years time when they are bigger and stronger??

I guess it all depends what you want to see from a justice and socialogical system, if you want to see instant retribution delt out, irrespective of the fact that in the long term it actually adds to the problem then thats fine - just let me know where the extra money is going to come from to pay for it all.

However I would prefer to see a system that punishes where necessary but offers an alternative to individuals that show a willingness to reform and a wish to intergrate with society.

[Sully]

gash, you're a benevolent, tree hugging, mambypamby shirtlifter who thinks that victims of crime (especially kids and pensioners) deserve all they get - I don't believe you were ever in the Corps. Come on, own up

[gash-hand]

Drat I've been rumbled

Should've known better that to try and blag a blagger

[Sully]

I admire your patience though mate - I just can't be arsed This macho sloganising is a bit of a drag.

[harry hackedoff]

a benevolent, tree hugging, mambypamby shirtlifter

That sounds like Elvis. No wonder he`s off on a jolly

[gash-hand]

Well I did nearly give it up at one stage, but I believe that some people can be rehabilitated and that the harsh option isn't always the only option.

The way i see it is like this:

Lets say you have a druggie scrote who's just robbed a house and got caught. The daily mail and express readership will immediatly sentence him to 5 years hard labour. So he's now a druggie and banged up, a year or two later when he gets out he's still a druggie but with nowhere to live and no prospect of getting a job. So he goes back on the rob again, only this time he's learnt a few things from being inside so he's a better robber, which means he can rob a lot more houses before he gets caught. Eventually he gets caught and goes back inside. He's released again in a few years and definetly has no chance of getting a job so its back on the rob - only now he's been in the gym so he can break into houses and not care if anyones home, he does this one night and gets disturbed, so he kills someone. He gets caught through DNA so this time its life.

If we rewind back to his first offence and investigate why he was out robbing and take a bit of time to see what caused him to get involved in drugs we might find out that he is trying to kick the habit but can't seem to do it, he's lost his job through drugs but needs money, this seemed his only option. Instead of sending him to prison lets send him on a rehabilitaiion program - this will of course incense the general public who demand he be 'sent down'. However 2 years later he's off rehab and back in full time employment, he has broken his old circle of 'friends' and has made new friends within his workplace. Life it would appear is good.

Now i'm no accountant but i'd say the second option is likely to be a lot cheaper to society in terms of money and grief.

Seems common sense to me but I guess i'm only me aren't I?

[joe]

It seems to me that some people on this board would be happier living in somewhere like Saudi Arabia