weighted squats

[billybud]

billybud have you done PRMC or Recruit training or just theorising on something you have never experienced?

No I haven't, my background is athletics but i'm interested in what training is done by other people.
I know lots about athletics training and the OP wants to run 1.5 miles to the best of his ability.
To do that he needs to get out there and run on a regular basis. Stuck in a gym pumping iron is not what I would advise....but if you know better i'm willing to listen.

[GGHT]

I agree, worse thing you could do is turn up looking like a bodybuilder but trust me mate PRMC and the early part of RT is very much sprint based varying in length from 20-800m. Don't do what I did and train like a runner for CTCRM. (30-40 miles a week, 2 speed session etc).

Short intense sprints would help his sprints, which would most certainly help his 1.5.

Why? Because I was fit as fook when I first went in but after around a month I lost a lot of fitness (went from 12.8 something on the bleep to 11.4) because you do hardly ANY distance running in RT. So, my CV system, used to "high" mileage, really suffered.

IMO rugby style fitness is best for PRMC and RT. Good endurance but also short explosive bursts when needed. Coming in first on runs and thrashings will do you a lot of favours in Recruit training. (Pays to be a winner! )

Also, on PRMC the timed run is one of four tests you will do and is by far the easiest. The assault course, which is easily the hardest (we were down the bottom field for over 4 hours of non stop activity) requries balls out aggression and power.

So take my advice as you like mate but you definatley need a strength/power component to your training. If I did RT again I'd go in slightly under fitness if anything, the course is carefully designed to bring you up.

[degrees of passion]

It's true that sprinters do a hell of a lot of weights - they need big explosive muscles that work for 10 seconds.
Middle distance runners ( 800/1500)might do a few light weights to keep their form and arms pumping in the last sprint.
Long distance runners (5,000/10,000) don't do weights - have you seen a fit one stripped down to his vest?
1.5 miles is definitely not a sprint, might feel like it!, it's somewhere between middle and long distance. Your Marines training will probably suit a marathon man more than a sprinter. I would say you need a training regime of plenty of long slow runs mixed in with interval & fartlek running when your body can cope with the increased load, as somebody said earlier this will give you plenty of leg strength and work your aerobic system as well.
Example: Dwayne Chambers our best sprinter would last about 400m on your trial run, then he'd be seriously hurting. He has little endurance - not surprising he wasn't able to finish a full game of Rugby League.

1.5 miles is nowhere near middle to long distance,IMO its short distance,and in the PRMC,although not strictly a sprint,it is similar because the 1.5 miles back on the 3 miler is all out effort.I don't think RM training is suited to an endurace athlete like a marathon runner,simply because they have nowhere near enough raw power:they may be able to run long distances in record time but put some weight on their backs and they'll get nowhere.The simple nature of running for very long distances robs the body of essential muscle.Same with upper body strength,take a close look at the upper body of a marathon runner and you'll notice they're built like teenage boys or even girls,compare this with,as you say Dwayne Chambers' upper body which is big,strong and ripped.He only couldn't play rugby league because a)he couldn't catch,and b)he was trying to cross completely different sports to one of the roughest sports in the world,at the highest level:if top league and union players struggle to switchover how on earth is Chambers going to manage.

Actually if you look at the most recent sports science studies you'll see that sprint training with intervals is the best way to make the biggest fitness gains in the shortest time,slogging it out in slow,long drawn out jogs is now a dated approach to training.For RT,as far as I'm aware,you have to have a good base fitness,the right mental approach and the PTIs bring your endurace on gradually through the 32 weeks.Ask the past bootnecks and they probably wouldn't recommend running any further than 5-6 miles when training for PRMC and the start of RT.

If were going to generalise and debate the most suited candidate to RT,I'd say a boxer is most suited.

[billybud]

I acknowledge GGHT & degrees' comments - they've been there and done it, I only get my info from TV programmes.
But from the training angle, I agree on some points, but not on others - a boxer would be the ideal recruit - but look at a boxers training - lots of steady running and exercises using their own body weight (usually no weightlifting). So take a long distance runner who has great endurance but he lacks upper body strength and add in the circuit training, then he could make it.
The one thing that would worry me is Dwayne turning up at camp - i'd think impressive muscles and speed yes, but he's going to last half an hour, those muscles are made for doing a maximum of 2 x 100m races per day, he just hasn't got the stamina, (sorry Dwayne if you are reading this! )
In conclusion i'd say if you really must use them, then weights are things to be taken lightly.
By the way, 1.5 miles is definitely not short distance - if I asked a 100, 200 or 400m runner at my club to run this at short notice, they would not be happy!

[GGHT]

Your on the right track mate (no pun intended!)

It's a cliche on here but true, the main thing is the mental aptitude to say "Yes Corporal"! and just do it. The training teams know when you've had enough and have given 100%. For example I distinctly remember a rather unfit lad on my PRMC been given stacks of encouragement by the duty Corporal as he was giving it 100%, if he was that tiny bit fitter they'd have passed him no probs.

[cruicent]

Of course weighted squats will help bring down your times. Your legs will have the strength to last longer and wont have a build up of lactic acid as fast. Personally I beat a mate (triathlete) quite a few times on hill sprints after hardly any running for a few months and lots of gym work, because my legs weren't building up as much lactic acid and could last longer.

[GGHT]

Yeah I had that down the stances at CTCRM. I used to get my ass kicked on the flat runs but I'd cane most of the troop on hill sprints from a standing start.

[degrees of passion]

I haven't been there and done it yet I'm glad it sounds like I have though I see where you're coming from on the weightlifting thing but like I said bodyweight squats in plenty of reps and sets are ideal to add to your training preparation for PRMC and RT and do definately help with running.

I think I've said this before on mfat but I'll say it again:I don't know why people(not you inparticular mate just a general point) get so hung up on the idea that weightlifting is bad for RT.Yes,being a meathead and pumping out max weights with few reps to just bulk up is no way to go about training for RM.BUT weightlifting is not dissimilar to bodyweight exercises etc because you are still,essentially moving a weight with your muscles whether it be a lump of iron or your own body.The key difference comes in the amount of reps,sets and time it takes you to do them and inbetween the sets(Im not talking about the isolated weghtlifting exercises like a concentration curl,but the ones that incorporate more muscles and are more functional like a lat pull down or row).I think there's too much of a taboo in military circles:a set of dumbbells is not something to shy away from cos you're afraid it'll make you too bulky and slow.

Boxers do usually do alot of steady running but they are still trained to fight in short spurts,and most of their training is circuits to gear their body in to recovering quickly in the minute between rounds.

Dwanye Chambers:How do you know he doesn't have the stamina?I know he's only trained to do short distances but that doesn't mean to say he's useless at longer distances,he's more likely better than most of us at long distances,he's just not at the top level of it as he is with short.It's not a zero sum thing where if you're good at sprinting you must be bad at long distance.It's like Mike Catt on superstars,he's a rugby player but is also a good all-rounder at everything else,because his rugby fitness also crosses over to other events and types of fitness.

Obviously 1.5 miles isn't short distance to 100-400m runners,but it's about perception and I was talking in reference to people who actually run all the time and do events etc like the people in runners world.Alot of them who run half marathons do 1.5 miles just to warm up

On a lighter note I'd love to see that cheating bast*rd get a beasting from the PTIs

[Stokey_14]

- a boxer would be the ideal recruit - but look at a boxers training - lots of steady running and exercises using their own body weight (usually no weightlifting)

This is a very stereotypical view of boxers, now I’m not saying in some case's its not true, 'old school' fighters often do a lot of LSD running and some stay well clear of weight lifting for what ever reason. But today’s modern fighter is slowly coming to terms that lifting weights don't make you slow and LSD running isn't always the way to go (though it has it's place by all means)

Take a look at www.rosstraining.com and you will see a open minded take on combat conditioning with many various fighters using with great successes some of Ross's techniques (or ones he believes in- I’m not claiming they are all his ideas and nor does he)

Go too a lot of boxing gyms, look at a lot of modern fighters Mayweather/Hatton/Amir khan (to name a few well known ones but there are many more I could list off) and you see the use's of weights along side body weight exercises and running. They are a great tool and can be utilized in various ways.

Time specific training is becoming more and more common, I.E. if you have to fight for 2 or 3 minuet rounds with 1 minuet in-between work at that ratio so a armature fighter will run hard for two minuets and have a minuet off etc.

The fact is all athletes vary, some lift some don't, it is what works for you that really matters. I know Oscar De La Hoya in preparation for his bout with Mayweather didn't touch weights but did old school body weight exercises but he also used interval sprinting... so take what you will from that.

I do how ever agree boxing is a brilliant way to get in shape and works many aspects of fitness endurance/stamina, power/strength,skill/tequnice, conditioning/the mental will to go on to name but a few.

As I’ve already said I’m not arguing or trying to be picky just find that sometimes opinions see to be set in there ways.

In my opinion its all a means to a end, resistance is resistance, improving Cardio can be done in many different ways, some work for one man and not another I’m a strong believer in finding what fits you and get rid of the rest and Finally I would like to say that I’m not perching or trying to come off as a know it all

All the best

Stokey

[lodge939]

Rosstraining is awesome. I just got his Never Gymless book. That assault course is mine

[Brisks]

- a boxer would be the ideal recruit - but look at a boxers training - lots of steady running and exercises using their own body weight (usually no weightlifting)

This is a very stereotypical view of boxers, now I’m not saying in some case's its not true, 'old school' fighters often do a lot of LSD running and some stay well clear of weight lifting for what ever reason. But today’s modern fighter is slowly coming to terms that lifting weights don't make you slow and LSD running isn't always the way to go (though it has it's place by all means)

Take a look at www.rosstraining.com and you will see a open minded take on combat conditioning with many various fighters using with great successes some of Ross's techniques (or ones he believes in- I’m not claiming they are all his ideas and nor does he)

Go too a lot of boxing gyms, look at a lot of modern fighters Mayweather/Hatton/Amir khan (to name a few well known ones but there are many more I could list off) and you see the use's of weights along side body weight exercises and running. They are a great tool and can be utilized in various ways.

Time specific training is becoming more and more common, I.E. if you have to fight for 2 or 3 minuet rounds with 1 minuet in-between work at that ratio so a armature fighter will run hard for two minuets and have a minuet off etc.

The fact is all athletes vary, some lift some don't, it is what works for you that really matters. I know Oscar De La Hoya in preparation for his bout with Mayweather didn't touch weights but did old school body weight exercises but he also used interval sprinting... so take what you will from that.

I do how ever agree boxing is a brilliant way to get in shape and works many aspects of fitness endurance/stamina, power/strength,skill/tequnice, conditioning/the mental will to go on to name but a few.

As I’ve already said I’m not arguing or trying to be picky just find that sometimes opinions see to be set in there ways.

In my opinion its all a means to a end, resistance is resistance, improving Cardio can be done in many different ways, some work for one man and not another I’m a strong believer in finding what fits you and get rid of the rest and Finally I would like to say that I’m not perching or trying to come off as a know it all

All the best

Stokey

And you get to punch people in the face legally.

[Stokey_14]

- a boxer would be the ideal recruit - but look at a boxers training - lots of steady running and exercises using their own body weight (usually no weightlifting)

This is a very stereotypical view of boxers, now I’m not saying in some case's its not true, 'old school' fighters often do a lot of LSD running and some stay well clear of weight lifting for what ever reason. But today’s modern fighter is slowly coming to terms that lifting weights don't make you slow and LSD running isn't always the way to go (though it has it's place by all means)

Take a look at www.rosstraining.com and you will see a open minded take on combat conditioning with many various fighters using with great successes some of Ross's techniques (or ones he believes in- I’m not claiming they are all his ideas and nor does he)

Go too a lot of boxing gyms, look at a lot of modern fighters Mayweather/Hatton/Amir khan (to name a few well known ones but there are many more I could list off) and you see the use's of weights along side body weight exercises and running. They are a great tool and can be utilized in various ways.

Time specific training is becoming more and more common, I.E. if you have to fight for 2 or 3 minuet rounds with 1 minuet in-between work at that ratio so a armature fighter will run hard for two minuets and have a minuet off etc.

The fact is all athletes vary, some lift some don't, it is what works for you that really matters. I know Oscar De La Hoya in preparation for his bout with Mayweather didn't touch weights but did old school body weight exercises but he also used interval sprinting... so take what you will from that.

I do how ever agree boxing is a brilliant way to get in shape and works many aspects of fitness endurance/stamina, power/strength,skill/tequnice, conditioning/the mental will to go on to name but a few.

As I’ve already said I’m not arguing or trying to be picky just find that sometimes opinions see to be set in there ways.

In my opinion its all a means to a end, resistance is resistance, improving Cardio can be done in many different ways, some work for one man and not another I’m a strong believer in finding what fits you and get rid of the rest and Finally I would like to say that I’m not perching or trying to come off as a know it all

All the best

Stokey

And you get to punch people in the face legally.

Boxing… hitting people in the face?

What a very small minded and thuggish' that view is, boxing is a art form crafted though years of hard work it's not about the violence at all ... no wait, sorry wrong way round boxing is indeed all about violence and having fun bopping people on the noise Just like my sparing partner on Friday showed, mum went mad when I came in with a red t-shirt having gone out in a white

On a more serious note it does (if you do it properly) teach controlled aggression a hot headed fighter is a rash fighter who doesn't think straight or about the consequences of his actions (leavening you're self wide open for instance) and as I’ve said the fitness side is second to non

Stokey

[Brisks]

haha I was joking, I go to a kickboxing/boxing gym, luckily I never have nose bleeds but I sometimes step into punches and have been knocked out a few times.Worse than being knocked out is fighting tall people or people with rediculosly long arms.

[Stokey_14]

I never have nose bleeds

I only have to look at a pair of gloves and my nose just starts to pour. I my self have never been knocked out fighting , though I have blacked out when training on a few occasions . Once when cross country running on my own though a wood... I stupidly decided I’d beast my self by trying some hill sprints at the end of my normal run few sprints later I was lying flat out in a pile of fern bushes

You learn as you go though I suppose

Stokey

[Brisks]

I never have nose bleeds

I only have to look at a pair of gloves and my nose just starts to pour. I've never been knocked out fighting my self, though I have blacked out when training on a few occasions . Once when cross country running on my own though a wood... I stupidly decided I’d beast my self by trying some hill sprints at the end of my normal run few sprints later I was lying flat out in a pile of fern bushes

You learn as you go though I suppose

Stokey

Have you broken your nose before I heard that can make it fragile... I've never feinted either , I tend to throw up though when I go to hard which is not nice.