'Minimum length of service'

[picklepot]

Hello all.
Can anyone please explain to me the commitment I would make as a Weapon System Operator (non-commissioned aircrew)? There is a 'minimum length of service' of 12 years.

Does this mean I would be required to remain in the RAF for 12 years? Or could I choose to leave earlier, after a shorter ‘return of service’, and maybe just loose out on pension entitlement?

I’d really like to find out what I’m letting myself in for before starting an application. Thanks.

[Fwd 5]

1) the short answer is that you can leave without too much difficulty during training, but once Combat Ready you will be tied in for a total service of about nine years.

2) It works like this. It will take you about two years to get to the end of your first OCU (assuming no holds or recourses). You then encounter a concept called Amortisation. This is the time the Air Force requires you to serve in order to justify the cost of your training. Amortisation for SH crewmen is currently six years from end of first OCU. After this period (ie minimum of eight years served) you can PVR (ie resign). You will then be subject to whatever the current PVR waiting time for your trade is(currently 12 months for SH crewmen). Making a total of about nine years.

3) Every now and again the question raises its head of whether the concept of amortisation and PVR waiting times are legal under european employment law. Can't answer that one.

4) Why would you want to leave? They would need a f***ing pick and shovel to get most of us out - its great!!

5) The above only applies to SH crewmen, I know nothing about anyone else.

[picklepot]

Thanks for that Fwd 5. Your reply is what I’d expected really. I don’t ever want to leave but, I don’t know what the job is like yet, and I can’t really know that unless I’m doing it!
Also, I could be allocated any specialism: linguist, analyst or crewman. They each seem quite different and it’s hard enough to imagine what they’d involve in the first few years, let alone in the next few decades.

I’m surprised this ‘amortisation’ can be done legally but would anyone challenge it? It’s easier for the military to just release someone who wants to leave that badly. I wonder why fast-jet pilots aren’t tied-in for a squillion years considering the cost of their training? And they could be paid so much less.

I’m glad you love what you do! What is SH? My search only came up with “buy ‘SH crewman’ at ebay”.
Can I just ask you, do you feel you have a career with progression and new challenges to look forward to? And, is it the people you work with that make it so great?

[Biggles1211]

3) Every now and again the question raises its head of whether the concept of amortisation and PVR waiting times are legal under european employment law. Can't answer that one.

The Armed Forces aren't covered by the full extent of Employment Legislation. For obvious 'Operational' reasons the Armed Forces have argued successfully why they shouldn't be constricted by legislation that governs civilian jobs.

Firstly, and most importantly, is the fact that the Government has to maintain an operational Armed Forces in order to safeguard the nation. That means ensuring that everyone couldn't just poke off at the drop of a hat (as might be the case before a war).

Secondly, when you volunteer to join the military you are accepting the terms of service that are offered. That is your 'contract' with the military. The military offers pay, training and employment. In return you agree to commit to a certain lenght of service. There is nothing illegal in incorporating a contract along with an offer of employment.

In some ways the concept of 'return of service' is very simular to an Indentured Apprentice scheme. The RAF offers training/employment and you are commited to return the value of that training through employment for a pre-determined length of time.

So, from an alternative perspective.....

If you wanted to leave the RAF earlier agreed YOU would be seeking to break your contract and you would essentially be 'ripping off' the taxpayer for a great deal of valuable training.

[Fwd 5]

I think we are getting away from the original question here, but just to clarify my point 3 above;

1) I certainly am not saying that amortisation or PVR waiting time are illegal or indeed unfair. I simply stated that the question raises its head from time to time. A search of the internet will reveal several legal cases challenging these rules over the years, including at least one application for a judicial reveiw.

2) Don't sign up for 12 years unless you intend to serve 12 years

3) As I said before, why any crewman would want to leave is beyond me!

[picklepot]

Thanks for all your replies. You've given me a lot to think about.

[Sarastro]

Is that TOS particular to that trade, or is it common to the RAF in general? Just quite surprised at the difference between that and the 3-5 year minimum TOS for Army, RM and Navy.

[Biggles1211]

Officers = 6yr SSC or 18yr/age of 40 (whichever is longest) PC.
NCA = 12yrs.
Airmen = 9yrs.

Note: for Airmen, any service under the age of 18 doesn't count towards the 9yrs.

[Rizzarazzu]

Another point to remember is that in the first 6 months of joining you are free to leave if you don't like it provided you give at least 14 days notice.

I think most people would decide they don't like it fairly quickly, once you've got past the training and you go operational and life starts to 'settle down' a bit, i can't see why anyone would want to leave.

[Biggles1211]

Those that do are normally back in the careers office within 2 years asking for another shot at it. Many are then disappointed.

[$amantha]

You must write to HRH if you wish to leave the RAF early. You are then pretty much told when you can leave - this could take up to a year and a half.

[Biggles1211]

It's called Premature Voluntary Release (PVR) and there is a form for it. I don't recall these forms ever being addressed to HRH.

[tonylott]

As long as JPA is working!