Restorative Justice

[harry hackedoff]

Always thought Frank Spencer was a bit, oooh, er Betty,

This was all still a bit obscure and off topic, must be all the existentialist horse puckey I was fed as a kid....

Quite
Aye,
PS drip drip drip,that`s what Royal does best.
Hopefully, not when I`ve got the bottom bunk

[munky]

i don't want to get into the why-do-people-commit-crime part of this debate, because i'm not a sociologist. but here's what i'm going to do when the revolution comes and i am installed as presidenté munky...



1. for low-level crimes (handbag-snatching, assault & battery, robbery...), tattoo the offender's forehead with non-permanent ink, indicating what they've done. five years of wandering around with "nicked an old lady's pension money to buy an afternoon's worth of crack" on your bonce for half a decade speaks for itself. all of society knowing that you're scum is punishment, and you serve as a walking bill-board for deterrant.



2. for medium-level crimes (repeated mugging, gbh with intent, drug-dealing...), you get drafted into the penal legion. separate from the british army, you're electronically-tagged around the neck, tattooed with your crime on your forehead and put through the nastiest, hardest, most nightmarish basic training you can imagine. any breach of legion rules & regulations results in various forms of corporal punishment, ranging from whippings to extra PT to electro-shock therapy. after being completely broken by the system and the instructors, your de-humanised self is put back together from scratch - re-educated, taught about politics, taught about civilian values, shown what damage crime does. you're also given a proper bloody trade so you've got something to do after you're released back into the world, and a back-dated salary of about £5k a year so you've got something to set yourself up with.

after you've been trained to current uk-infantryman standards, you serve out your years of sentance either catching bullets whilst peacekeeping, keeping fit, getting trained in your new post-legion skill, peeling asylum-seekers from the euro-tunnel train-tracks, labouring on government building-sites or weeding flowerbeds in OAP homes. in the event of all-out war, of course, the penal-legions would be right at the front...


3. for compulsive re-offenders, and those people unfit for penal legions, you get locked up. for ten-year stretches. there you get three meals a day, and you get a lot of books to read. and absolutely nothing else. no tv. no letters. no creature-comforts. no family. just the inescapable sense of your life being spunked-up against the wall.


4. for people so hopeless that they'd otherwise be locked-up for the rest of their lives, i.e., serial rapists, serial killers, the criminally insane, (those people who can never contribute anything at all to society and for whom guilt of their crimes is totally beyond doubt) then it's a quick death by cyanide (in their food so that they don't know it's coming).




remember - vote munky.

[Frank S.]

I still want my d@mn flyin' Chevy and a realistic, fully functional android mistress... On second thought I already got that...

[THE HAPPY WANDERER]

Resurected this because of what has just happened to my partner Gill.

Yesterday Gill and her son went to the funeral of his girlfriends Father.
Dont know how old he was but he was retired.

This kindly old man helped those less fortunate than himself,he gave money and advice if that was what was needed.

Amother and her son whom he had helped out over a period of approx one year decided that he would help them even more so they decided to mug the old boy.

However,not content with the mugging,they tortured him with cigarettes,lighters and a hot poker.When he could take no more they kicked him to death,and so severe was the kicking that he was unrecognisable.(My partner told me the funeral was a closed coffin affair)

It turns out that mother and son are druggies and needed money for their pathetic habit.

Having re-read some of the replies on this thread(including my own)i would like to reiterate to those of you that believe that the victims should meet the ones responsible for the crime,you are talking utter cr*p if you believe that meeting these two drug crazed lunatic bastards will do anything to help the widow and four daughters he left behind.What memories do his family have now when they are told he was beaten to death and identified by means other than visual.

I stand by what i have always said,they do not deserve to live and should die by the same means as hanging is far too good for them,and for those bleeding heart tree hugging liberals who believe that these poor drug addicts are more to be pitied than scorned and disagree with me,then all i have to say is TOUGH SH*T,that is what i believe should happen and no-one will make me think otherwise.

This story can be read in the Halifax Courier....www.halifaxtoday.co.uk







The Happy Wanderer

[Sully]

Firstly,

you are talking utter cr*p

A discussion has been had elsewhere about respect for other peoples views and constructive discussion/debate/disagreement. I will say no more.

Secondly, as far as I can see it the discussion centered on the principle that offenders could in some circumstances be made to face up to what they have done. In the horrific situation you describe this would be impossible so I can't see what point your making (and will refrain from abuse for the sake of the integrity of the forum).

You make the assumption that people who don't agree with your fundamentalist (and unproductive) approach to justice somehow feel sorry for the offenders. If you had read some of the posts properly (instead of with a view to grinding your axe) I think you would see that we all want to put an end to the kind of thing described above - that's the number one aim. Benevolence and sympathy doesn't come into it. I share your disgust at what has happened to that poor old fella.

Frankly it pisses me off no end that there is an element on this forum (who I would like to think should know better) who instantly believe that someone who doesn't agree with them on some kind of macho sloganising or 'DS solution' is either bad, mad or both.

[THE HAPPY WANDERER]

Good Morning Sully,
Reapect,peoples point of view,constructive discussion,
these two low lives had no respect for his viewpoint,did not/could not/would not know, how to hold a constructive discussion,much less start one.
As for those who do not share my idea of justice,each to his own mate,
but there are some people out there who will fight for these inhuman sods by claiming they did not have a fair crack of the whip,they grew up in a bad area,life dealt them a bad hand or some other lame brained excuse,and before we know it they are back on the streets being given all sorts of help from Jane and Johnny Dogooder.

These two should not even be breathing the same air as the rest of us.
Grinding an axe......WRONG
Venting my spleen..........YES

I previously mentioned JUSTICE,one hell of a word to bandy around,but,if recent events are anything to go by then i doubt she will be served,and these two will not recieve what they so richly deserve(in my humble opinion of course)a very long slow death.


The Happy Wanderer

[Sully]

these two will not recieve what they so richly deserve(in my humble opinion of course)a very long slow death

Personally I agree Happy Wanderer. It's understandable that you would want to vent your anger mate but I took exception (maybe wrongly) that it was being vented at me as one of the posters you referred to.

Much of the discussion was about nipping this sort of behaviour in the bud and addressing it early. We all want to stop this sort of thing - previous posters have shown no sympathy for or understanding of the kind of low lifes you describe, our views differ as to how its done.

What I would take issue with at the end of the day is the probable (I say probable because the system is set up that way) tactics of the defence lawyers who will (in my limited experience) try every trick in the book to get these two scumbags off (or get their punishment reduced) and then get in their nice cars and drive home to their nice (and safe) part of town. This isn't a criticism in general of criminal defence lawyers as everyone is innocent....etc. zzzzz but I've seen it done and couldn't do it myself. My view is based on personal experience and maybe should be taken with a pinch of salt as my experiences may not be the norm.

[Wully]

There was an 84 year old lady on the local TV news this lunch time and you would have cried to see the state of her face. It was black, blue, red and bruised all over just like a piece of rotten meat. The other morning at 0230 some piece of low life broke into her flat and beat seven bells out of her just so he could steal her £50 pension money to feed his drug habit.
I leave it up to you to decide whether or not it would do this old lady any good to be faced with the piece of shit that attacked her. Even if it would do the low life any good if somebody did to him what he did to the old lady.

[gash-hand]

[Sully]

Exactly - nothing to add to that.

[Wully]

It's little wonder that people who make serious and sensible contributions to this forum are leaving rather that put up with the purile and sarcastic responses to what they consider a quite valid points.

[gash-hand]

Wully...You have to be joking, right? This is all part of some elaborate wind up isn't it?

I mean there's no way on earth you can honestly believe in that statement after the way you and your entourage have treated some of the respondents to this subject just because they dare to have a different opinion to yourselves.

I've read through the posts on this subject and I can't find one example where someone said it would be OK for a murderer/rapist/druggie killer to go and see their victim - so why do you keep repeating the same comment like some scratched record? Or are you too witless to form an opinion/comment for yourself so just rely on what the Daily Mail tells you to think?

Alls we so called tree huggers said was that it (alternatives to punshments) may be worthwhile for certain offenders and certain circumstances - not all offenders regardless of crime - what is so f*cking hard to understand about that?

The reason why I placed the zzzz and banghead was because after Sully had tried again to explain this thought on an earlier post you come on and start spouting the same sh*t regarding beaten up pensioners - like we don't realise that happens and we don't care about it - well we do know what happening and we do care and to inferr any different is f*cking insulting, but just because we are willing to at least consider alternatives doesn't mean we're a bunch of leftie handkerchief waving lovies. Do you think you're the only one who's experienced anything bad in life?

You talk about purile and sarcastic comments putting people off the forum - don't you think its about time you and your muckers looked a bit closer to home?

P.S. And i'm still trying to find one of your serious and sensible contributions to this discussion - no luck yet.

[Whitey]

Well it would appear that the Joo's have taken over your government too. Not trying to sound anti-semetic, but I'm leary of Super National Seccularist who influence my govt. with bribes. These same organizations say the death penalty is evil, that free speech is too offensive for the good peoples ears. That the lazy, inept and ignorant are the superior of the industrious, competent and intelligent. They tend to preach radical diversity while removing cultural icons such as flags, monuments and laws that threaten their cause, while at the home front in their mother country diversity and assimilation of other cultures into theirs is not only unheard of, but yet a crime. (SEE Israeli marriage laws and human rights violations along with racism) But how dare I question the unquestionable people? Shame on me.

I'm for the death penalty, in the US we have it, but don't seem to use it enough because of certian organizations run by certian insurgent groups bent on changing the course of America set by the founding fathers. Heck used to if a man caught a man stealing on his property, vadalizing or commiting a variety of crime the property owner was within his legal right to shoot the bastard, now you go to prison for protecting your family and property from criminals. Especially in the Northern States where crime is rampant.


I hope this rant doesn't break anyones heart or offend anyone, it's just the situation in America and seems to resemble the situation in the UK if I'm reading this right. Welcome to the New World order, where no one is responsible for anything and all you value is pissed on and destroyed for the greater good so the brotherhood of man can sing kumbayah around the fire all tradition , western culture and law is burned.

[Whitey]

How can you stand for that? Why don't your neighborhoods ban together and practice some justice on the Junkies? My God that angers me. I'm sorry for you and your kids. I couldn't imagine. If a man ever comes into my home to bid ill to my family or property, that man will wish he hadn't, law or no law.

God help you folks, I thought it was bad in America as far as crime. You need the right to keep and bare arms. Won't help while you are not home, but God help the junkie who breaks in while an armed would be victim is home.

My Grandma shot a man who broke into her house, he tried to sue, but the jury had no sympathy for a man who tried to rob an old woman.


I'm so sorry about X-mas man. That is just shitty. Lowest of the low.