Jessica Lynch

[TK421]

TK4,
Look join up, take the oath's, think about what you are swearing to as you do and you'll easily see as you uphold those honors, oaths and traditions everyday that when you see your organization and its members betray them for political and monitary gain you'll want to vomit. You're a good American TK4, its all about the money, the deals ect. This is why you and your like thinking ilk will never stand the test. Such shallow goals, aspirations at the expense of honor, duty and Esprit De Corps. It saddens me to think our great country who once was the shinning bastion of freedom and goodness has sold out, and the groveling maggots such as you oprotunist's support thiese dishonor's to accomplish your own agenda. Thing is there will come a time when your ilk will cause the system to collapse. Perhaps you should read Cicero, he said Rome could withstand many things, even stupididty, but it could not stand treason from within, and this is exactly what you my boy and the officials are doing weather consciously or unconsciously, no matter the result will be the same, the end to all that the noble before you fought, built and preserved. Enjoy your milking, perhaps you to could find monitary gain from a national tragedy or perhaps you'll just go with the flow of those that do. You'll be in the Navy soon if I read right, they will love you there my friend. Plenty of bright eyed bushy tailed desk jockey warriors, looking to capitalize off of misfortune or lies. This is not the country I knew as a small boy, it disgust's me. Go ahead run with the ball, there is a team on the feild though hero, intent on keeping ten yards.
I still wonder, what though posseses you to defend lies? Perhaps I'm too harsh, maybe you are a good man, just misled? Truth is her citation doesn't rate and what about the Men who fought cut off to the death in Nassariyah? Even the Iraqis who saw the fight who seem to hate America said those Marines fought gallantly? I guess they were'nt pretty blonds?

sigh. This is why I hate talking to zealots. It's like talking to a brick wall. The point I've been trying to make is that it's not Lynch's fault. She's been caught up in all of this and if some good can come from this for her, I say great. And I have yet to find where it is written that Lynch will recieve the ONLY medal for the entire war. Can you tell me where I can find where it says that Pfc. Jessica Lynch's Bronze Star is the only medal awarded in Iraqi Freedom? She didn't ask for ANY of this.
And about the personal attacks- Sir, you do not know me. As far as I know we've never met. Let's see, you've called me a "maggot" and a "traitor". Sir if you ****ing dare call me a traitor again it had better be in person. It amazes me that name calling is what has earned the respect of these Brits. That worries me. I was under the impression that one could actually have a civilised mature debate here. Apparently I was wrong.
I am politically moderate, I never vote along party lines, and I am not out to milk anything. I was against the war until the second the shooting started and our troops, including two of my closest friends, were in danger, then they had my unwaivering support.
As for joining up and taking the oathe, I will be doing just that very shortly and following in the footsteps of my father and grandfather. How dare you insult the Navy and those who have served in it.
I'm also assuming that you are older than I am, so my advice to you is to GROW UP and learn to hear different points of view without resorting to name calling and insults.

[Whitey]

Mike and Matty,
I'll take the hand shake, its good to finally find a forum where I can practice freedom of speech, funny thing is I had to find one outside the US. I'm just on of many Americans like me. Many of us feel as if our country has been taken over by some emotionally charged irrational thought process. I understand 9/11 was tramatic for my nation, but one must remain rational even in difficult times, if not one could find himself making emotional desicions that lead to insane leadership and special powers like those in the Axis countries in WW2. I've traveled the world, and seldom met enemies. The world is not my enemy, dropping bombs on civillians like in Iraq and Afgahnistan is a serious endevor. I'm not against war in general, but what have we accomplished in Afgahnistan? We have collectively killed more civillians than Taliban, we hastily and irrationally went there making up the plan as we went, thus failing to properly seal the Pakistan boarder, where OBL might have very well escaped through. The Northern Alliance we allied with is a pro communist group, and today the Taliban controls 1/3 of the country while US tax payers shell out 11 billion a month to that country.
Now we go to Iraq for the sake of slaying evil dragons, the economy, to find WMD and to "Free" the Iraqi people. We pay off Iraqi generals to manuver their troops away from Iraq, we Shock and Awe the civillian population of Baghdad sparing the Iraqi Army. The Iraqi Army changes into civillian clothes and now fights like guerrillas, our troops slug through the remanents of the unluck Iraqis who haven't gotten the word that their generals have taken bribes and are now at club med, then we pull down a statue in the center of Baghdad, Bush lands on a carrier, Jessica Lynch is the new pentegon made Joan of Arch and all the blunders of the operation, like NCO's in the 507th who couldn't read a map, the lack of WMD, the friendly fire that killed our troops and allies on several occasions are all swept under the rug. Saddam is still on the loose, his worthless playboy son's are gone and the religious clerics are threatening to turn Iraq into a radical religious state like Iran. All the while folks here at home wave flags, people that never served a day in the military tell us veterans we are unAmerican for not loving the war, it's rediculous. Our country is being turned into a police state and people are cheering for it. They toss their freedom for the idea it may buy them safety. I think it was Jefferson who stated that" those that would give liberty for safety, deserve neither liberty or safety." I'm sorry, but 2 buildings and a command center getting attacked should not give the okay for our freedom as Americans to be taken away by feel good legislature. I love my country, but I barely recognize it anymore. Our president said that if we allow 9/11 to change our lifestyle then the enemy has won, well I guess its Enemy 1 point, Good Guys Zip. They have changed us more in the past 2 years than this country has seen since Lincoln in 1865. I want to be the America we used to be, the one I was proud of, the one much of the world was proud of. Now everyone is scared of us and hates us, we seemed to have lost our goodness in our quest to understand what happened to us and find justice for those who attacked us. I'm sorry this is so long, but I fear I will never live in the country I remember and adored for so long.
I also think outside influences are working inside my govt. Whoever finances us controls us, who is our money lender is what I ask, and is where the answers lay. I know my country since 1865 has fought for only one thing, and that is money.

[Frank S.]

It amazes me that name calling is what has earned the respect of these Brits. That worries me. I was under the impression that one could actually have a civilised mature debate here. Apparently I was wrong.

No, that's not what it is.
Don't let it.
Yes, one can.
I don't believe you were.

[Whitey]

TK4,
Name calling. How is it said in the Ghetto? "My Bad Dawg. Look I'm sorry for the names, but it appeared that you were shallow, and are motivated by selfishness. As for the Navy, I did 6 years in it, I liked the duty, but be aware it is marred by politics. The Navy your family served in is very different than the one today, I dare insult it because I served it and while loving the adventure and tradition I despise its politics and back stabbing antics. As for Baby Jessica, I was trying to convey that all she needs to do to be a real hero is stand up, damn the contracts and do the honorable thing and tell the truth. Denounce the fame, the arbitrary awards. Did Alvin York ever capitalize on his MOH? I don't think so, nor have any of the others. I'm glad you'll soon take your oath, don't break it. And as you enforce our idiotic foreign policies set by alcohlics who work for the state remember your oath to the constitution, read the constitution first before swearing to it. And if you can look yourself in the mirror after 6 years and be proud, well good for you. Milk it!
I welcome your opinion as long as it is rational. Your Navy preaches some stupid philosophy. They think the inept, lazy and incompetent are the equals of the competent, industrious and rational. Thats one example that even a boot should understand. Go be a top gun, be a SEAL, or be a supply POG, I don't care, just be rational. When you defend Lynch and her perpatrating greedy character you vomit on the honor of men like Roy Benevidas, Alvin York, Audy Murphy, Aubry Red Newman and one close to home my father. I dare speak sharp words and venom because I've earned the right, I have earned my birth right and taken the hard right over the easy left. I was an HM in the FMF(SOC) enough said. Again sorry for the names, but take a hard look at your actions son, and right yourself. If you have the desire and energy fix the Navy, but don't excuse the character of cowards.

[Matty]

TK,

The name calling far from impresses me,its when someone can speak with truth about a situation,and think every moral person US UK Mexican Russian etc can look at the situation and know whether its right or wrong just or unjust.

Ive got the same contempt for anyone in any situation who trys to pull the wool over my/our eyes.And for it to be whole governments and establishments then how can we fully be behind anything they do in future.

When you read this site and pages on our leader bliar and how himself and his government lied to his people, ive got the exact same contempt.

It just suprised me they were taking these risks on fooling their people because they could be ousted at the next election, or maybe second thoughts ...

[sp10122]

Whitey

Mate, you made some good points and I thought you put yourself across very well until you responded to this....

Ah, I see. So being unbiased means sharing the opinions with the majority on this board.
I don't think Lynch deserves a medal. Is it her fault she's getting one? No. Did she wake up that morning and wish for all this to happen? No. Personally I hope she milks this for all it's worth with book deals, public appearances, movies, etc., etc.. Good for her.

With this.........

Look join up, take the oath's, think about what you are swearing to as you do and you'll easily see as you uphold those honors, oaths and traditions everyday that when you see your organization and its members betray them for political and monitary gain you'll want to vomit.......Such shallow goals............groveling maggots such as you oprotunist's support thiese dishonor's to accomplish your own agenda..........what though posseses you to defend lies.............. take a hard look at your actions son, and right yourself

How on earth did you get that from what TK said? He has said some disagreeable things in previous posts but how did you get that from that? I am a serving officer and yet TK's right, it is very easy to criticise someone's actions from the comfort of home with a brew, her actions were to be unconscious in a ditch during a firefight then get given a gong. Well, as TK said (agreeing with you) she doesn't deserve a medal (an entirely ratoinal thing to say). The problem is the political and media circus that has created the product of Jessica Lynch. That is the problem....not what she did or didn't do. Unless of course she's lying about the amnesia which would be pretty disgraceful just to make what he can.

The British forces have a long and distinguished history of controversial gongs but you can't attack the people who get them for getting them. It always amazed me that Colonel H Jones, the last officer to get a VC, was criticised for winning it. What he did was very brave, if it was the right thing to do as CO of a Battalion is an entirely different matter, but how can you criticise him for being decorated. Do people really think that lone charge was to win a medal....no it was a brave act typical of the man. If you're to point the finger it's at those who award the awards not those who receive them.

Did Lynch want to crash, end up in a ditch, be captured and then be rescued....of course not. It is the media and politics that you're raging against not the soldier. As to making money out of what you do in government service I don't agree with it but her head must be spinning. She's from a small town in the US and now she's the centre of a mass media circus....she's under a lot of pressure. That she never asked for.

But when discussion degrades to name calling (and this is aimed at both of you) and reeling off stock phrases any valid points you make are lost or disregarded because people will not respect what you're saying.




PS This is the crieria for the award....make your own mind up.

The Bronze Star Medal is awarded to any person who, while serving in any capacity in or with the Army of the United States after 6 December 1941, distinguished himself or herself by heroic or meritorious achievement or service, not involving participation in aerial flight, in connection with military operations against an armed enemy; or while engaged in military operations involving conflict with an opposing armed force in which the United States is not a belligerent party.

[Frank S.]

One point about the amnesia...
I don't think it should be all that unbelievable that she doesn't remember what happened in the minutes before the vehicle she rode in crashed.

From personal experience (motorcycle accident with head trauma), I know that the meds administered to me by the fire department paramedics to stabilize me caused short term memory loss. They told me so.

I 'lost' between 5 and 10 minutes of memory before being rendered unconscious. I don't doubt this could have happened to her.

[TheCount]

Many of us feel as if our country has been taken over by some emotionally charged irrational thought process

Our own Government have attempted to put the UK in a similar state, British people as a whole are pretty cynical though. We know that one word in ten out of the priministers mouth may have some truth but the rest is self serving propoganda.

I've noticed quite a few Americans will support the President no matter what, just because he holds the position of office, no matter how he got there and his dubious credibility.

I don't think the people should be blamed but those in power.

[Aldo]

The point I've been trying to make is that it's not Lynch's fault. She's been caught up in all of this and if some good can come from this for her, I say great.

TK421, it may not be her fault that she has been awarded the bronze star or that the story of her rescue has been blown out of proportion, she had no choice in that. However she does have the choice of setting the records straight, refusing the medal that she doesn't deserve and thereby keeping her honour intact.

[Whitey]

Exacty, she has a duty to set the record straight! As for the names, as I recall someone said "Milk it for all it's worth" that statement in my opinion warrents more than just names. See that milk it attitude has helped to destroy and errode the character of my country, and after all isn't a maggot a parasite that milks its host for all it is worth. To me the system started this circus and Jessica has done nothing to stop it, nor has she set the record straight. The other POW's started to talk but have been hushed up by the same media since. I'm sure she doesn't remember the fire fight, but I think her hospital stay and subsequent treatment there was far above that of the POW's of the last Iraq war. Look at Andy Mc Nabb, then look at lynch, big difference in treatment by Iraqis. I do blame the media, I blame the military leaders who BTW gave the elite Ranger Beret to every slob in the regular army, but the buck stops with Lynch, and all I can see is a bunch of profiteers, even lynch and a bunch of Goo Goo Gah Gah ooglin suckers in the US eating the crap up. That is what I'm saying. I have no respect for those who support, defend and perpetuate obvious lies. 0X

[Aldo]

Look at Andy Mc Nabb

He's a good example of ego and "milking a situation". His story is a heroic one if told truthfully but when he makes up the story of 250 iraqi troops chasing him and all the rest of that b*ll*cks he took away all of his credability and now most people in the regiment can't stand him. That is exactly what the US government is doing now with stories of WMD and Jessica Lynch etc

[Whitey]

I wasn't aware Andy made up some of his story, but I'm sure judging from the POW pictures on the telivision during the war that the troops were tortured and not lain in comfortable beds sucking down orange juice.
Lynch was pictured with hair combed, no bruises on the face, not a mark actually. Usually the face ifs the first choice for torture, especially on a woman. She is draped in an American flag, spotless mind you in a dirty enviorment. Things just add up strange. The worst is that this simple minded supply puke is smiling and gloating like a Jack-Ass infront of the world eating it all up, while real heroes go ignored in their graves. She could set the record straight, but then she wouldn't get rich, the War effort would lose credability even more than it has. Many Americans don't like the first strike policy, it is against our character. Only a few loud voices in power favor cruising the globe forcing our will. I beleive in Isolationism, but the dollar doen't prosper as well in Isolationism as it does in Imperialism.
Well Aldo looks like you are going for the RM's. Good choice, I admire and respect them. After my first hitch in the military I got out and wrote to the RM's wondering if an American could join them, they said no, only those born in the Common Wealths of England, Australia, and Canada if I remember right. So I went back in the military to the Army. The Army is a dirt ball organization over all, and compared to the Marines its a joke.
Good luck.

[harry hackedoff]

I like your style Whitey. I wish more of your countrymen (who have posted on here,) could hold my attention the way you have. It`s good to get the American view on the Lynch episode( and to find it coincides with my own ) It`s always a pleasure to welcome a fellow cynic.
Question everything, believe nothing that our governments or their media lackeys, tell us and we won`t be disappointed. The way you describe the changes in American culture over the last thirty years, have struck a strong chord on here, amongst those of us who recognise and resent, similar changes in the UK. Well done, you.
Take a tot mate
Aye, Harry

[Aldo]

Well Aldo looks like you are going for the RM's. Good choice, I admire and respect them.

Thanks. Sorry to hear they wouldn't accept you, would've been nice to have an American over here that knows what's going on in the world.

Looks like your becoming a popular member here, keep up the good work.