Restorative Justice

[Andy O'Pray]

Joe,

It is your right to have your own persoanal views on topics, however, it is not your right to assume that people with differing views would be happier living somewhere else. Just remember that it is those people who fought and put themselves in danger to give you the freedom of speech that you enjoy today.

Andy.

[joe]

Sorry Andy, it was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek.

[gash-hand]

Yes quite.

It might also be worth adding that just because someone has a differing view on how a situation could be handled differently, it doesn't mean they have had no experience or concept of the consequences to the victims involved and to infer as much is both insulting and arrogant.

[chunky from york]

I have seen floggings in Saudi - not pretty. But I once saw a flogging in Abu Dhabi,up rolled a police bedford and several Land Rovers.

Out of the back of the bedford they pulled the metal frame of a bed and lessened it against the wall ,dragged this guy out of a Land Rover and shackled his wrists to the top.

By now a large crowd had gathered, up rolled a burly sergeant with a 'camel stick', a length of bamboo about six foot long. With a lot of swishing and waving , he got in position behind the pale looking prisoner and gently tapped him on the shoulder. The locals were curled up laughing at him, after half a dozen taps, he was unlocked and given a kick up the arse and sent on his way to the cat calls and jeers of the crowd.

A very humiliated bunny.

[Wully]

Gash-hand. sorry if I came over as insulting and arrogant to you, but I still maintain, how can you have any real concept of the suffering and trauma of being burgled or mugged unless you have experienced the act. Can you really fully know the feeling of being violated in this way? Knowing that you are in no position to defend yourself and even if you are capable of defending yourself you are more than likely to find yourself ending up in a police cell.
It's a sad fact of the society that we live in that we cannot depend on the law to protect us and the law will not allow us to protect ourselves.

[BenChug]

Look at that guy who killed Jamie Bulger. The justice system has managed to turn an individual who committed a horrific crime into a young man who is now studying at college. Some may say that this is a victory for the English system. Others may say that he should rot in jail till he dies.

However, a modern system of justice has to look at the better needs of society. If it can rehabiltate offenders and turn them into better citizens then it should be welcomed with open arms. If it sticks them in jail for 15 years then releases them as violent criminals the it has failed.

Unfortunatly here in Canada convicted offenders 'have the right to an education,' what this means is if they want to learn while in jail they bloody well get too, they don't pay the tax payer does! Now the poor bloke who can't afford to go to University he well he has to find a job as a labourer, because he can't pay.

A case here a convicted rapist was allowed to attend a local collage, the teacher of the class refused to have him in her class, she well she got fired, thats shit it is.

They should have to do hard manual labour until they have repaid there debt to society, like smashing rocks and such.

[Andy O'Pray]

BenChug,

A good point. Carol Homolka is another good example, she now has her degree, paid for by the tax payer. As she is so detested by the Canadian public, she will be given a new identity and secreted away to an undisclosed destination, all at the expense of the tax payer.

Aye - Andy.

[THE HAPPY WANDERER]

Gash Hand,

If the drug taking B*stard of an addict had been hung on his first mugging/beating /robbing/killing spree then the problem would have been solved with very little cost to the tax payer and,i am sure,the relief of a lot of old aged pensioners.


The Happy Wanderer

[Andy O'Pray]

For an explanation of the Carla Homolka case for those who don't know. She, along with her husband abducted three young girls, one being her younger sister, raped them and then killed them. They video taped all incidents.

In return for a reduced sentence, Carla Homolka turned state evidence against her husband. He will never be released in his lifetime. She can be released next year, complete with an education paid by the taxpayer. Such is the contempt held by the Canadian public against Homolka, that the system is concerned about her safety upon release. The taxpayer will foot the bill for a new identity and an undisclosed new residence, perhaps the UK. We have plenty of IRA touts over here.

My daughter, a law abiding citizen, is still paying off her university tuition, and you ask me to have feelings for the scum of the earth, get real and talk to somebody who gives a damn.

Walk into my home uninvited, and you do not walk out again.

Aye - Andy.

[Sully]

Wully, I've just about had enough of what you presume about other people's motives. Last time I let it ride and gave a respectful reply but I wonder who you think you are with your bitter insinuations. Of course my life has been affected by crime. For instance, not that its got f**k all to do with you, but anyway, did you hear the story about Cpl Kev Weaver who was killed in Guz about 3 years ago by some scrotes (and who were filmed leaving the court and smirking after their bail hearing)? He was a very good mate of mine and left behind a daughter the same age as my son. You seem to presume that my way of dealing with it is to invite them round to my house for sympathy - benevolence has got f**k all to do with it. At his funeral I heard all the old bollocks about what would or wouldn't happen to the said scrotes (similar to some of the childish drivel here and on the thread about the bootneck recently being knifed by an Iraqi).

Remember, tough is as tough does, not as it talks. Nothing would make me happier than to hear tomorrow that they had met a horrible end but it pains me to say that I'm not prepared to do it myself and risk my son growing up without me. What I would do to those that crossed me and mine is my business and I would have to take the consequences - its ridiculous to advocate a nations policy on this, and to say that someone else should do it for me.

I once defended myself against an attack and had to stand in court with a defence barrister hysterically pointing out that as a former bootneck I was a violent and uncontrollable lout - needless to say the scrote walked free. Don't think (more to the point, presume) that I have any illusions about the workings of the criminal justice system and that I don't live in the real world.

Three of my school mates (now former mates) have done, or are doing, long stretches for armed robbery and their story is exactly as gash describes following the 'success' of the "short sharp shock" regime in detention centres and borstals.

Andy, "A Sense of Freedom" by Jimmy Boyle is set in Glasgow in the 50's and 60's - post Lord Cameron but still in what appears to you to be the good old days "in the days of the real hard men, not the little punks that are around today". If you haven't read it I think you should and then revisit what you said about "I think that it was gash-hand who said that the old ways did not work. It did for Lord Cameron and the citizens of Glasgow". By the way I wouldn't give these "hard men" the credit that you seem to. Nobody can say that Jimmy Boyle is not a reformed man after a very unpromising start.

Joe, nice one, keep em coming - enjoy your free speech, I can't see any difference from what you say to the presumptions that are made by others here - except yours is, as you say, tongue in cheek.

In the right circumstances I think crooks should be made to face up to the consequences of their actions, which, waffling about probation officers, "mambypamby, Oh poor dears", tree huggers etc aside, is what I think this thread is about. But the reply is no doubt "you're only saying that because.......[insert motive/character weakness]....."

[Artist]

Owdun

When I left the Corp I joined the Probation service. (I have mentioned this before)

My first draft and last was Winsford. I would rather pull crocodile teeth than have to go through that period of my life again!

Most "clients" were to put it mildly pains in the bum. the amount of times they could not be arsed to turn up on time for community service, court, appointments with the service I could go on and on. One little beggar trashed the waiting room because he wanted to go to Liverpool to watch Everton!

The nicest bloke I ever met whilst working as a probation officer was a convicted killer out on license. (topped his mother-in-law) The average client seemed to me to be some "jack the lad" who saw his probation as a hic- cup on his way to becoming a fully fledged criminal.

It just seemed a waste of time to me and to the other officers. These people had decided what they were going to be and that to them was that. I got the sack after one "famous" Winsford tough guy took a swing at me and I lost my cool and hit the git back. the chief officer appoligised to the git and asked if he would like to press charges! even though the git had hit me first! I left that day.

Ever since then my blood boils when I see our cock arsed criminal system hit out at the man defending his home/wife/life. And the "poor" criminal who instigated the incident get the kid gloves treatment.

Artist

[bongo]

How many booties/ex booties reckon CTC saved them from a life of crime?

[gash-hand]

Bongo, Good question.

Heres another, How many booties/ex-booties/squaddies have, on a run ashore, caused mayhem in whatever local dock/town they happened to be in?

I remember a local bar in La Rochelle which was destroyed by some Royals who decided to have a game of 'who could throw the paving slab the furthest', it just so happened that the bar was in the line of fire. As nobody was injured it was quietly swept under the carpet.

Just when does a crime become non-acceptable?

[Contractor]

and another question - similar theme, what's the difference between Officers "high spirits" trashing a bar and junior rates acting like "hooligans"? IMO only class distinctions.