Do you still agree with the 2nd Iraq conflict....?

[may18]

As is, I feel we have lost a lot of good people and spent an awful lot of taxpayers money on a 'revenge' thing for the incompetent yanks who, not being able to find Osama, attacked an easeir target, that of Iraq. I always wanted to be tested professionally at least once in my RN career; I am left with a bitter taste in the mouth after this one - roll on my 9.

first off sir, let me thank you for your service. As you can see I am a former U.S. Marine. I as a "yank" sincerely apperciate your service to your country and the cause. I see that you feel your fighting as a merc. That must make it diffacult for you. I do however disagree with you. Not about your feelings, because after all they are yours. But about the reason for them. First off, I think history has proved that just ducking your head in the sand when an agressive dictator is in power is not going to work. Look at PM Chamberlin. As far as this being a "yank" war, I believe alot of my countrymen said that during World War 2. They felt we should stay out of the war in Europe. After all the Japanese attacked us not the Germans. But as ALLIES, and friends we joined the fight. I know I've been on this kick before about bashing us "yanks" and I won't ask or go into it again (Andy ) I got a few PM's from royal marines explaining to me how some people are gonna bitch and cry no matter what you do, and if it wasn't about us yanks it would be something else. And I am not at all saying that you are crying. I guess that you don't feel that this war on terrorism affects you as much. And that is your right and opinion. I sincerely hope that your government and majority of your people don't feel so much hatred tword us yanks. I have said it before that I feel that we are the closest of allies in the world. If you need help we will help, and if we need help you help.

Now onto the incompetent yanks who cant find Osoma. Well Sir where is he??? Obviously you don't know either. How long has the IRA been around? I'm not trying to bust your balls over this, I'm merely pointing out the fact that its not that easy to find one man in the entire world. You need HUMINT. These groups are very hard to penetrate by agents, and its also very hard to turn one of their own because of their fanaticism.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I'm not mad... I am a U.S. Marine, so it does get my blood up a bit when our friends seem to hate us. But I've been told to not take it personally, so I won't. But one question. What ever happened to that famous stiff upper lip?

I hope that you have a safe passage and may god watch over you, your family and crew where ever you may be.[/quote]

Ok, hiya usmarine,

Regarding "hating" us troops and goverment etc, personally i think its nonsense, id say there is a difference in culture, for example. As i understand it, insulting or accusing bush of directly lying is seen as a really bad thing to do for people in america, he is commander in chief. Here, on any forum people will rip into any and all of our goverment and members of parliament will also freely accuse the PM of lying. As for our media..well believe me they can be offensive to who they like. So, its not just americans that will get a bit of verbal on the various forums, its fellow brits as well.

Also, in the uk while a lot of people are sure the iraqis now have a better future, many are concerned or angered at the idea B.LIAR may have lied to the public about the WMD. Because that means he sent british troops off to fight under false pretences. He didnt say "our reason for war is hussein is a bad man and we want to free iraqis" he said "hussein has WMD and can use them within 45 mins". Really important to people in the uk if it turns out he made it up. Not sure in the US if its a big concern.

Regarding the war on terror, well this is a big question, do we feel the action in iraq has made the world a safer place.

Personally im not sure, on the one hand a dictator has been removed, on the other thousands of matrys have probably been created. I remember talking to a muslim from morocco, who was outraged at the attack and willing to blow himself up to "punish the agressors on the muslim world"

When i pointed out hussein had killed many thousands of muslims, he replied, "yes, but he is a muslim who defies israel".

So, people need to decide for themselves wether the removal of hussein, has made the potential for terrorism more or less.

[US Marine]

May,
I wasn't saying not to bash Bush. I couldn't care less about that. Its the bashing of the military that gets me. As far as WMD. We know he has them, he's USED them on his own people. Everyone has started screaming for this proof. Jesus, do people realize that he has had 12 years since the first gulf war to hide this stuff. It is a BIG desert after all. Its not like he hid the map under his bed and left it there for us.

Martyrs, well I'm not sure if we actually made MORE martyrs. I mean is there really going to be some arab who was sitting on the fence about us and israel? No they hate us no matter what we do, so I don't think we actually made any NEW enemys. My friend who is still active duty got back this week, and I've already talked with him. Mind you he is a infantryman not some REMF. He said that despite what the news may have said people were cheering and giving him sodas and shaking his hand, so the Iraqis are happy for the most part.

Please, talk about Bush. I've been told to lighten up already buy some of your guys so I won't say anything else. Your house, your rules.

[Jason The Argonaut]

I feel it was right for us and the collation to move into iraqi, to make sure we got rid of Saddam Hussein this time. I know that no WMD have been found yet, but even if they are never found, at lest we have freed the iraqi people and have hopefully rid the world of a evil dictator. Meaning he wont be running iraqi ever again. I personal think that there are still WMD out there in iraqi its just a question of time until they are found.

For people who say this war was a waste of time, money etc., you tell that to the families who have lost there son's, brothers, fathers fighting for their country, what we did was the right and human thing to do.

[may18]

Well i recently had a chat with a mate in the RGJ, hes a sergeant who has worked with a number of troops including US soldiers. Im not a soldier, i can only give you the outline of his opinion,

WRT to peacekeeping, he did feel that US troops have less experience, but that wasnt their fault, that some of it was due to US rules of engagement (example: not allowed to remove body armour etc).

WRT to training and combat effectiveness, he felt british troops were more intensively trained, but it was more to do with doctrine and lack of equipment within the british forces that will provide support. For example, if brit soldiers got into trouble, they have to get themselves out of it whereas US troops will always have air superioirity, and always have the resources for air support etc, making them a deadly fighting force. Because they always have the technological and air superiority advantage, they use it...which in turn leads to a tendancy to rely on it.

WRT to WMD, yes he used the chemical weapons way way back, without western condemnation i have to add. Hussein was considered the lesser evil and at the time he was gassing kurds, both the us & uk goverments were aiding him. Its to our shame imho that we didnt condemn his gassing of the kurds very loudly at the time. However the WMD he obtained then, have a limited shelf life, so the fact he had them then does not prove he has them now.

Both of our goverments claimed to have strong evidence that he still had them and could use them, b.liar went as far as to say they were "ready to use in 45 minutes". So, personally, while i havent concluded they arent there (its a big country to search) i want evidence eventually, or b.liar to resign for lying blatantly in sending soldiers to war.

Finally regarding comments against US troops. Well our media hasnt done that, as for forums, i think it goes both ways. I was briefly a member of freerepublic.com . During my time there, i read a LOT of anti british stuff. Wether it was comments that uk soldiers were "cowards pussyfooting around basra", or comments that "british troops minced around while the fighting men did the work". Or comments about britain being an anti semetic trashpile because of our position on israel. When "red ken" critised bush, there was outrage, calling on a "boycott of britain" etc

[Jack of All Trades]

US compulsion:

Men in grey suits, control over deminishing natural resources, payback for being elected using petrochem funding, changing history for a fathers mistake, exert control and direction of Middle Eastern geopolitical situation to name but a few

UK compulsion:

TB's total self inudulgent and egotistical mission to become President of the EU

Never about WMD or war on terrorism

[El Prez]

I see Bush has insisted that more men be diverted to the search for WMD, "they shall be found!" Rather like the Emperor's clothes.

[Guest]

The whole show was a bleedin' set up, nothing we can do about it now, the job was done and done extremely efficiently, SADMAN was got rid of but at what price?

Do you notice Princess Tone keeps saying 'I know I'm right', not the Government, our cabinet, our country. It is always I, I and I.

'I know we are right in getting rid of Saddam, I know he has got Chemical Weapons, I know we are winning the war on the constitution of Europe', personally I think he knows %$£k all!

[Midshipman786]

isnt it funny how "we know he HAS weapons of mass distruction" has suddenly turned into " we know he HAD weapons of mass distruction" when did "has" turn into "had" and why?

why are US and UK intel oversight commttees now carrying out their own enquiries into the quality of their intelligence?

why are retired CIA analysts complaining that the intel was cooked up?

if rumsfeld is now saying he knows that saddam destroyed them before the war, then the cassus belli was taken away then surely?

i dont understand why americans arent asking these questions...do they just swallow whatever their govt tells them no questions asked?

or are they being blinkered by the red white and blue:o

[Andy O'Pray]

Middy,

Some Americans are asking these questions. Now on sale are a deck of cards depicting the 52 most unpatriotic Americans, those who spoke out against the war.

Last night I listened to an American documentary on the history of the Middle East. Apparently Lawrence of Arabia fought the Germans there during WW1. Admittedly there were some Germans there, but I believe there was an extremely large contingency of Turkish delight, but hey, who listens to the facts.

Aye - Andy.

[Artist]

Toe Knee B'liar is like a corkscrew. all twisted and bent.

I think he realy believes what is "advisors" tell him. I see he's committed forces to the Congo now.

Just seeing the hand wringing "look at me I'm a nice chap" Git makes me sick! He's begining to think he is impervious to UK and World oppinion.

The trouble is with the "dashing" IDS as his opposition he will more than likely get a third term in office. Bush, before he came into power didnt even know where Turkey was! That says it all for me.

I didn't aggree with GW2 but when the boys were in it I was up there cheering with the rest. In the Armed Forces you go where your told and do what your told to do without comment. Ifen this ever changes anarchy is just round the corner.

Aye Artist

[Guest]

I understand from news bulletins today that Blair is going to publish the facts on WMD, he will probably get Dubya to show us all the receipts of Anthrax and the like that the US were allegedly supposed to supply Sadman in the Eighties.

Blair is on his back foot and about to hit his own wicket, does he think the population of the UK is thick?

[US Marine]

I didn't aggree with GW2 but when the boys were in it I was up there cheering with the rest. In the Armed Forces you go where your told and do what your told to do without comment. Ifen this ever changes anarchy is just round the corner.

Aye Artist

Finaly, someone said something that sounds like they were in the military. Thank you Artist

[El Prez]

USM, when the GW2 was first mooted literally everybody contributing to the site disagreed with GW and Blair. We could not, and do not see that there was justification for the conflict. We were sold a pig in a poke and Blair knows it.
However, as soon as the lads and girls were mobilised we immediately, without equivocation supported them unstintingly.
Now the conflict is over we have returned, in the main, to our previous stance; produce the evidence Mr Blair or tell the British public and Parliament you lied!
Next!!!

[JR]

I've said it before and once again,Politicians are like baby's Nappies (diapers) they need changing regulary and for the same reason.Aye JR