Share This Page:

  

SA80

General information on Military History.
London Boy
Member
Member
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed 19 Dec, 2007 4:19 pm
Location: Not in UK

SA80

Post by London Boy »

Just a quicky, which I'm sure many of the illustrious members of this forum can answer in a jiffy.

When did the SA80 and its derivatives become standard issue. Was it late 82 or 83 or even later ?

The SLR was in the Falklands

I remember in about March 82 we (2 Sqn RAF Regt) got one of the first batches on trial - I never got to fire one though. :cry:

Nevermind, I never wanted a shortarse assault rifle anyway, I was quite happy with my SLR thank you very much...storms off with the hump

Nose - spite -face :wink:
The Southerner
Member
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed 30 Aug, 2006 12:15 pm
Location: Trying to get the p*ss smell out of my boots

Post by The Southerner »

According to Wikipedia it was officially accepted by the British Army in 1985:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SA80
Application submitted: 16-01-08
Psychometric tests: 30-01-08 (Passed)
Eye test: 03-02-08 (Passed)
Interview: 07-02-08 (Passed)
Medical: 12-02-08 (Passed)
PJFT: Delayed due to having the knees of a 14 year old girl
London Boy
Member
Member
Posts: 689
Joined: Wed 19 Dec, 2007 4:19 pm
Location: Not in UK

Post by London Boy »

Ah thank you Southerner. Good old wiki.
But wiki in my experience can't always be trusted.
Rogue Chef
Guest
Guest

Post by Rogue Chef »

40 Cdo received theirs mid to late '86 ( I think).
The Southerner
Member
Member
Posts: 57
Joined: Wed 30 Aug, 2006 12:15 pm
Location: Trying to get the p*ss smell out of my boots

Post by The Southerner »

London Boy wrote:Ah thank you Southerner. Good old wiki.
But wiki in my experience can't always be trusted.
:o Noo don't say that- everything I know was learned from Wikipedia! If it's inacurate then my entire life is a lie :(
Application submitted: 16-01-08
Psychometric tests: 30-01-08 (Passed)
Eye test: 03-02-08 (Passed)
Interview: 07-02-08 (Passed)
Medical: 12-02-08 (Passed)
PJFT: Delayed due to having the knees of a 14 year old girl
Paddysprat
Member
Member
Posts: 125
Joined: Wed 20 Feb, 2008 3:02 pm
Location: England

Post by Paddysprat »

From what I was told during my training the 85 in L85A1 as it was at the time, stood for the year it was accepted into service. My 'old man' remembers getting use of them around mid '85 as well. Therefore, my answer would have to be 1985. :D
'Paddysprat' a phrase used when explaining the origins of an 'Army Brats' accent.
woof
Guest
Guest

Post by woof »

I liked the SLR, you put a round through someone and they generally stopped breathing this here 5.5 nato round sounds a bit dodgy to me.
User avatar
Tab
Member
Member
Posts: 7275
Joined: Wed 16 Apr, 2003 7:09 pm
Location: Southern England
Contact:

Post by Tab »

The SA 80 was based on a 1945 design of the EM1 although the EM looks more like the SA 80
Wholley
Guest
Guest

Post by Wholley »

The EM1 or'Bullpup'nearly went into service in 1947.
Designed for a much larger round(7mm)It was dropped due to American pressure as we had shed loads of .30cal left over from WW2.
I too like the SLR,Iv'e owned two,one a sixties full-auto and a later semi-auto which was a little more controllable
zap0086
Member
Member
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri 22 Feb, 2008 10:43 am
Location: Wales

85

Post by zap0086 »

The SA80 went operational mid 85. We were half way through our Northern Ireland tour and the boys were not happy with it at first. The cocking handle was on the other side to what we were used to. We had a situation for a quick snap shot but the lad in question was still thinking SLR (cocking handle other side) and missed the bugger. We came to love it for it's accuracy and strap mechanism but would have rather have waited until we completed the tour to take it on
anglo-saxon
Guest
Guest

Post by anglo-saxon »

Wholley wrote:The EM1 or'Bullpup'nearly went into service in 1947.
Designed for a much larger round(7mm)It was dropped due to American pressure as we had shed loads of .30cal left over from WW2.
I too like the SLR,Iv'e owned two,one a sixties full-auto and a later semi-auto which was a little more controllable
That 7mm (the .".280 British) was quite similar to the 7.62 X 39 (standard Soviet rd). Apart from bullet diameter, it sat about half way in dimension between the 7.62 X 39 and the standard NATO 7.62 X 51. It was significantly faster with a flatter trajectory and produced much more energy than 7.62 Russian, as it is coloquially termed these days. The EM2 lost the political battle to the 5.56, as did the later (early 1970's) Enfield L64/L65 rifle in 4.85mm. The The Enfield was a very strong contender as 5.56 was not yet NATO standard and the 4.85 out-performed the US 5.56mm, with superior exterior ballistics and terminal effect (greater penetration). H & K then produced a 5.56 that equalled the 4.85 and writing was on the wall. All it took then was for Stoner to have a good whine to his golfing buddies at the Senate and it was a done deal. Nothing shadey there - never in the US! 8)

This folks is why our soldiers are stuck shooting at body-armour-clad, deer-sized bad guys with a round that is illegal to hunt deer with across Canada and in most US states because it is simply too small. If you look at a box of Federal Premium .308 Winchester (7.62 NATO) cartridges, it will have a picture of a 150 pound deer on it. A box of the same brand of .223 Remington (5.56 NATO) cartridges shows a gopher (Richardson's ground squirel) which weighs about 2 pounds soaking wet! It's a bloody joke. It's also why many US units are now issuing a couple of 7.62mm Springields per squad and why the 6.8 SPC is in the US system with their SF. Same goes for the anaemic 9mm. Many are harking back to the .45 and others are going to the .40 S&W.

Finally, the non-expanding FMJ rule for the military is long overdue to be got rid of. Every police force worth its salt in the world has wised up to the usefullness of expanding bullets and the technology these days is outstanding. Any edge you have over the bad guys is worth while. Gimme 7.62 X 51 mm with 168 grain controlled expansion ballistic tip bullet any time. Works well on Bambi, too!
Wholley
Guest
Guest

Post by Wholley »

Seems we think alike.
My Dept.dropped the ageing and ineffective 9mm some while back.
.40S+W was the way to go.
Still like my Hi-Powers though,for shooting at cardboard.
Expanding rounds will not defeat a ballistic vest(trust me on this)the fmj will,which is the point really(Oh,sorry for the pun)
I did find some .308 blue tips at one time,the SLR didn't like them much.
Bambi was not impressed either.
Now where is that A1 Steak sauce? :o

I reckon we should have our own little thread for those here who like to shoot at stuff.
We could call it.....er,um...Shooting Stuff!!!!!
I know,
I'll get me coat. :wink:
harry hackedoff
Member
Member
Posts: 14415
Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am

Post by harry hackedoff »

I`ve said my bit about the wunnerfull SA 80 previously. :-?
First introduced one troop at a time to 3 Cdo Bde. from 86 onwards but had been around the Units for either trial or evaluation purposes for at least three years previous. Main probs stemmed from spindrift entering the working parts would thaw as the weapon was fired. Marine would cease firing and working parts would instantly freeze again, with a round in the chamber and the bolt moving forward. Later, heat from the Mne`s body, or if the weapon was taken into a building or vehicle would thaw the spindrift and the working parts would slide for`d. Often with sufficient energy to fire the round. Guys were getting charged with ND before the problem was finally admitted and it became sop to carry out the "make safe" after every time the weapon was fired.
The plastic furniture absolutely did not like the cold and would frequently break. The SUSSAT was assembled in air and over a few days the moisture inside would freeze until the sight was useless, later versions were assembled in Nitrogen. Worse thing, besides the NDs, was the quality of build of the magazine. It was so cheaply made as to be an embarrassment. Normal routine in the Arctic is to park your weapon, butt first, in the snow, like parking an umbrella. At first it was very funny when someone else’s mag fell apart when they did this 8) . Until it was your turn :o They were shite.
SLR bayonet cost about eight quid, SA 80 bayonet cost about 120 quid so obviously, I left mine in me locker at every opportunity. It was full of answers to questions no one was asking. Who needs a bayonet that can make a pair of wire cutters if you join it to your scabbard? I`ll tell you who. The same cnut who has never tried taking his scabbard off his belt order and fitting it to his bayonet whilst lying next to a wire fence at minus thirty. Plus, I never saw the need of that little pedicure attachment :-?
Best thing was the very accurate nature of the bulpup design and second best was the sling. For Arctic conditions it was a dream. Arctic sling on SLR was cunningly designed to allow the weapon to only be carried across the chest whilst skiing where it would smack you in the face at every opportunity. SA80 without a Bergan would fit on your back, muzzle up or down, or with a Bergan ,across your chest or under your arm. I thought it was the only thing they got right.
I thought what we were testing was an early proto-type and all of the things we pointed out would be sorted before it was issued.
Imagine my surprise, etc.
After the latest spend on making the weapon work, who else uses this piece of shite? Apart from the FIDF. As opposed to the AK?
I can still spot a raging success 8)
Or poss not.
[url=http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/groupcp.php?g=397][img]http://www.militaryforums.co.uk/forums/images/usergroups/listener.gif[/img][/url]
druadan
Member
Member
Posts: 1966
Joined: Thu 16 Oct, 2003 8:27 pm
Location: Balls deep...hopefully ;-p

Post by druadan »

working parts would instantly freeze again, with a round in the chamber and the bolt moving forward. Later, heat from the Mne`s body, or if the weapon was taken into a building or vehicle would thaw the spindrift and the working parts would slide for`d. Often with sufficient energy to fire the round
Harry, the SA80's working parts always slam forward after every shot WITHOUT FIRING A ROUND. Whereas a GPMG or Minimi has a fixed firing pin in the bolt - whereby the action of the working parts going forward both picks up a round, chambers it and fires it all in one - which could potentially cause the NDs you describe - the SA80 is more akin to an automatic pistol in that the working parts pick up the round and chamber it, but the trigger must be depressed for the round to be fired, as the firing pin is separate and activated be a hammer. The SA80 holds this hammer to the rear whilst still returning the working parts when the trigger is released (in fully automatic); a GPMG (or AK if I remember rightly) holds the entire bolt assy to the rear. In single shot mode, a spring catch is engaged which holds the hammer to the rear regardless of whether the trigger is kept depressed or not.

IMHO it is a very robust, reliable weapon in it's A2 guise, easy to use and clean, and far more accurate than an AK. I've never used the A1 so can't comment, other than it does seem to have a reputation for unreliability, especially in dusty conditions (not good in the sandpit, which hearsay says prompted the switch to H&K and the update).
Post Reply