Islam is a belief not a race.
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My tuppence worth on muslims in the UK
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Kiwi1988
- Guest
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harry hackedoff
- Member
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- Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am
Being out of ukers for a wee while and seeing a different version of imigration/assimilation, I`d like to offer this thought.
When mass immigration from the sub continent first started, (which I well remember as a skoolboy) there was absolutely no information given to either the host population or the incommers as to what each could expect from the other. Assumptions were made that somehow every one would just "get on" Immigration was not conditional on accepting even the most basic aspects of British life.
It`s no wonder that relations have gone to ratshit. Multi-culturalism is a failed social experiment
which has largely become bi-culturalism.
No Doc, not that sort of Bi-culture
When mass immigration from the sub continent first started, (which I well remember as a skoolboy) there was absolutely no information given to either the host population or the incommers as to what each could expect from the other. Assumptions were made that somehow every one would just "get on" Immigration was not conditional on accepting even the most basic aspects of British life.
It`s no wonder that relations have gone to ratshit. Multi-culturalism is a failed social experiment
which has largely become bi-culturalism.
No Doc, not that sort of Bi-culture
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The Southerner
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- Posts: 57
- Joined: Wed 30 Aug, 2006 12:15 pm
- Location: Trying to get the p*ss smell out of my boots
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Artist
- Guest
Religion and Racism is always going to be a hot bed of propaganda regardless of who, what or where you live for some arsehole ready and willing to take it on.
May I suggest that we all calm down
AND FECKING SHIT IN IT ASAP!
People, this is a forum for military stuff and a good laugh when it's in keeping, not anti this and anti that, be it colour off skin or peoples religious believes. Far to many Eeijuts come on here and leap onto the bandwaggon as far as I'm concerned.
You want to sound off about of Jews/Muslims/Hindus/Christians/Buddists/w@#k etc, etc then naff off and start you own website!!!!
Artist
May I suggest that we all calm down
AND FECKING SHIT IN IT ASAP!
People, this is a forum for military stuff and a good laugh when it's in keeping, not anti this and anti that, be it colour off skin or peoples religious believes. Far to many Eeijuts come on here and leap onto the bandwaggon as far as I'm concerned.
You want to sound off about of Jews/Muslims/Hindus/Christians/Buddists/w@#k etc, etc then naff off and start you own website!!!!
Artist
Last edited by Artist on Fri 08 Feb, 2008 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Airborne Legend
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- Joined: Sun 08 Apr, 2007 7:24 am
- Location: St Athan
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Artist
- Guest
Never said I was ferpect did I ?Sully wrote:....and a masterpiece in irony
Just don't like abuse from people who have never seen or met abuse or the real thing really. Try telling a dead Paddies (Mum or Dad) that your sorry but their son;
A. Is dead because he was caught carrying a weapon and used it in order to injure/kill a member or the security forces.
B. Is dead because he was caught trying to place a bomb under a car.
C. Is dead because he killed another human being in front of a member of the armed forces, which resulted in your son being shot by the said member.
Seven years I was there Sully! Saw it all and hated it all!
Artist
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Rogue Chef
- Guest
It doesn't specify that you have to be certified by other members, as a subject matter expert, before voicing an opinion.Free based forum for all to enjoy.
Most of us don't know each other, so probably have no idea what life experience we each have.
Most of the posts here have been calm and well presented, apart from a couple which contain abusive language.
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anglo-saxon
- Guest
Everyone knows a moderate Muslim or two. The bottom line for me, though, is that Islam as a whole is not a moderate pholosophy. I say this based not on traditional Islam, but on the way that Islam is being implemeted today. And the fact is that the top dog (Ayatollah) for the World's Islam is in Iran, a singularly extreme and totalitarian society, with nothing but Islamic law and from whence all fatwahs and jihads eminate. As long as extremists are at the decision-making hub of this religion, I most certainly WILL say that I am anti-Moslem. They are singularly intollerant, expansionist, brutal, and anti-integration.
Not sure if this has been posted before (if so...tough!). Here's Denmark's story...
Salute the Danish Flag - it's a Symbol of Western Freedom by
Susan MacAllen
In 1978-9 I was living and studying in Denmark. But in 1978 -
even in Copenhagen, one didn't see Muslim immigrants.
The Danish population embraced visitors, celebrated the
exotic, went out of its way to protect each of its citizens. It was proud of
its new brand of socialist liberalism one in development since the
conservatives had lost power in 1929 - a system where no worker had to
struggle to survive, where one ultimately could count upon the state as in,
perhaps, no other western nation at the time.
The rest of Europe saw the Scandinavians as free-thinking,
progressive and infinitely generous in their welfare policies. Denmark boasted low crime rates, devotion to the environment, a superior educational system and a history of humanitarianism.
Denmark was also most generous in its immigration policies -
it offered the best welcome in Europe to the new immigrant: generous welfare payments from first arrival plus additional perks in transportation, housing and education. It was determined to set a world example for inclusiveness and multiculturalism.
How could it have predicted that one day in 2005 a series of political cartoons in a newspaper would spark violence that would leave dozens
dead in the streets -all because its commitment to multiculturalism would come back to bite?
By the 1990's the growing urban Muslim population was obvious - and its unwillingness to integrate into Danish society was obvious.
Years of immigrants had settled into Muslim-exclusive enclaves. As the Muslim leadership became more vocal about what they considered the decadence of Denmark 's liberal way of life, the Danes - once so welcoming - began to feel slighted. Many Danes had begun to see Islam as incompatible with their long-standing values: belief in personal liberty and free speech, in equality for women, in tolerance for other ethnic groups, and a deep pride in Danish heritage and history.
The New York Post in 2002 ran an article by Daniel Pipes and
Lars Hedegaard, in which they forecasted accurately that the growing immigrant problem in Denmark would explode. In the article they reported:
"Muslim immigrants constitute 5 percent of the population but
consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending."
"Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5.4 million people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other crimes."
"Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less to mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane."
"Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes
on pain of death - are one problem"
"Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark 's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that-remote prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every
third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim."
It is easy to understand why a growing number of Danes would feel that Muslim immigrants show little respect for Danish values and laws.
An example is the phenomenon common to other European countries, Canada and the U.S. Some Muslims in Denmark who opted to leave the
Muslim faith have been murdered in the name of Islam, while others hide in fear for their lives. Jews are also threatened and harassed openly by Muslim leaders in Denmark, a country where once Christian citizens worked to smuggle out nearly all of their 7,000 Jews by night to Sweden - before the Nazis could invade. I think of my Danish friend Elsa - who as a teenager had dreaded crossing the street to the bakery every morning under the eyes of occupying Nazi soldiers - and I wonder what she would say today.
In 2001, Denmark elected the most conservative government in some 70 years - one that had some decidedly non-generous ideas about liberal
unfettered immigration. Today Denmark has the strictest immigration policies in Europe. ( Its effort to protect itself has been met with accusations of "racism" by liberal media across Europe - even as other governments struggle to right the social problems wrought by years of too-lax immigration.)
If you wish to become Danish, you must attend three years of language classes. You must pass a test on Denmark 's history, culture, and a
Danish language test.
You must live in Denmark for 7 years before applying for citizenship. You must demonstrate an intent to work, and have a job waiting. If you wish to bring a spouse into Denmark, you must both be over 24 years of age, and you won't find it so easy anymore to move your friends and family to
Denmark with you.
You will not be allowed to build a mosque in Copenhagen. Although your children have a choice of some 30 Arabic culture and language schools in Denmark, they will be strongly encouraged to assimilate to Danish society in ways that past immigrants weren't.
In 2006, the Danish minister for employment, Claus Hjort Frederiksen, spoke publicly of the burden of Muslim immigrants on the Danish welfare system, and it was horrifying: the government's welfare committee had
calculated that if immigration from Third World countries were blocked, 75
percent of the cuts needed to sustain the huge welfare system in coming
decades would be unnecessary. In other words, the welfare system as it existed was being exploited by immigrants to the point of eventually bankrupting the government. "We are simply forced to adopt a new policy on immigration. The calculations of the welfare committee are terrifying and show how unsuccessful the integration of immigrants has been up to now," he said.
A large thorn in the side of Denmark 's imams is the Minister of Immigration and Integration, Rikke Hvilshoj. She makes no bones about the new policy toward immigration, "The number of foreigners coming to the country makes a difference," Hvilshøj says, "There is an inverse correlation between how many come here and how well we can receive the foreigners that come." And on Muslim immigrants needing to demonstrate a willingness to blend in, "In my view, Denmark should be a country with room for different cultures and religions. Some values,
however, are more important than others. We refuse to question democracy, equal rights, and freedom of speech."
Hvilshoj has paid a price for her show of backbone. Perhaps to test her resolve, the leading radical imam in Denmark, Ahmed Abdel Rahman Abu
Laban, demanded that the government pay blood money to the family of a Muslim who was murdered in a suburb of Copenhagen, stating that the family's thirst for revenge could be thwarted for money. When Hvilshoj dismissed his demand, he argued that in Muslim culture the payment of retribution money was common, to which Hvilshoj replied that what is done in a Muslim country is not necessarily what is done in Denmark. The Muslim reply came soon after: her house was torched while she, her husband and children slept. All managed to escape unharmed, but she and her family were moved to a secret location and she and other ministers were assigned bodyguards for the first time - in a country where such murderous violence was once so scarce.
Her government has slid to the right, and her borders have tightened. Many believe that what happens in the next decade will determine
whether Denmark survives as a bastion of good living, humane thinking and social responsibility, or whether it becomes a nation at civil war with
supporters of Sharia law.
And meanwhile, the US and Canada clamor for stricter immigration policies, and demand an end to state welfare programs that allow many immigrants to live on the public dole. As we in Canada and the US look at
the enclaves of Muslims amongst us, and see those who enter our shores too easily, dare live on our taxes, yet refuse to embrace our culture, respect our traditions, participate in our legal system, obey our laws, speak our language, appreciate our history. We would do well to look to Denmark, and say a prayer for her future and for our own.
I say, "give them a land or their own". Antacrctica comes to mind.
Not sure if this has been posted before (if so...tough!). Here's Denmark's story...
Salute the Danish Flag - it's a Symbol of Western Freedom by
Susan MacAllen
In 1978-9 I was living and studying in Denmark. But in 1978 -
even in Copenhagen, one didn't see Muslim immigrants.
The Danish population embraced visitors, celebrated the
exotic, went out of its way to protect each of its citizens. It was proud of
its new brand of socialist liberalism one in development since the
conservatives had lost power in 1929 - a system where no worker had to
struggle to survive, where one ultimately could count upon the state as in,
perhaps, no other western nation at the time.
The rest of Europe saw the Scandinavians as free-thinking,
progressive and infinitely generous in their welfare policies. Denmark boasted low crime rates, devotion to the environment, a superior educational system and a history of humanitarianism.
Denmark was also most generous in its immigration policies -
it offered the best welcome in Europe to the new immigrant: generous welfare payments from first arrival plus additional perks in transportation, housing and education. It was determined to set a world example for inclusiveness and multiculturalism.
How could it have predicted that one day in 2005 a series of political cartoons in a newspaper would spark violence that would leave dozens
dead in the streets -all because its commitment to multiculturalism would come back to bite?
By the 1990's the growing urban Muslim population was obvious - and its unwillingness to integrate into Danish society was obvious.
Years of immigrants had settled into Muslim-exclusive enclaves. As the Muslim leadership became more vocal about what they considered the decadence of Denmark 's liberal way of life, the Danes - once so welcoming - began to feel slighted. Many Danes had begun to see Islam as incompatible with their long-standing values: belief in personal liberty and free speech, in equality for women, in tolerance for other ethnic groups, and a deep pride in Danish heritage and history.
The New York Post in 2002 ran an article by Daniel Pipes and
Lars Hedegaard, in which they forecasted accurately that the growing immigrant problem in Denmark would explode. In the article they reported:
"Muslim immigrants constitute 5 percent of the population but
consume upwards of 40 percent of the welfare spending."
"Muslims are only 4 percent of Denmark's 5.4 million people but make up a majority of the country's convicted rapists, an especially combustible issue given that practically all the female victims are non-Muslim. Similar, if lesser, disproportions are found in other crimes."
"Over time, as Muslim immigrants increase in numbers, they wish less to mix with the indigenous population. A recent survey finds that only 5 percent of young Muslim immigrants would readily marry a Dane."
"Forced marriages - promising a newborn daughter in Denmark to a male cousin in the home country, then compelling her to marry him, sometimes
on pain of death - are one problem"
"Muslim leaders openly declare their goal of introducing Islamic law once Denmark 's Muslim population grows large enough - a not-that-remote prospect. If present trends persist, one sociologist estimates, every
third inhabitant of Denmark in 40 years will be Muslim."
It is easy to understand why a growing number of Danes would feel that Muslim immigrants show little respect for Danish values and laws.
An example is the phenomenon common to other European countries, Canada and the U.S. Some Muslims in Denmark who opted to leave the
Muslim faith have been murdered in the name of Islam, while others hide in fear for their lives. Jews are also threatened and harassed openly by Muslim leaders in Denmark, a country where once Christian citizens worked to smuggle out nearly all of their 7,000 Jews by night to Sweden - before the Nazis could invade. I think of my Danish friend Elsa - who as a teenager had dreaded crossing the street to the bakery every morning under the eyes of occupying Nazi soldiers - and I wonder what she would say today.
In 2001, Denmark elected the most conservative government in some 70 years - one that had some decidedly non-generous ideas about liberal
unfettered immigration. Today Denmark has the strictest immigration policies in Europe. ( Its effort to protect itself has been met with accusations of "racism" by liberal media across Europe - even as other governments struggle to right the social problems wrought by years of too-lax immigration.)
If you wish to become Danish, you must attend three years of language classes. You must pass a test on Denmark 's history, culture, and a
Danish language test.
You must live in Denmark for 7 years before applying for citizenship. You must demonstrate an intent to work, and have a job waiting. If you wish to bring a spouse into Denmark, you must both be over 24 years of age, and you won't find it so easy anymore to move your friends and family to
Denmark with you.
You will not be allowed to build a mosque in Copenhagen. Although your children have a choice of some 30 Arabic culture and language schools in Denmark, they will be strongly encouraged to assimilate to Danish society in ways that past immigrants weren't.
In 2006, the Danish minister for employment, Claus Hjort Frederiksen, spoke publicly of the burden of Muslim immigrants on the Danish welfare system, and it was horrifying: the government's welfare committee had
calculated that if immigration from Third World countries were blocked, 75
percent of the cuts needed to sustain the huge welfare system in coming
decades would be unnecessary. In other words, the welfare system as it existed was being exploited by immigrants to the point of eventually bankrupting the government. "We are simply forced to adopt a new policy on immigration. The calculations of the welfare committee are terrifying and show how unsuccessful the integration of immigrants has been up to now," he said.
A large thorn in the side of Denmark 's imams is the Minister of Immigration and Integration, Rikke Hvilshoj. She makes no bones about the new policy toward immigration, "The number of foreigners coming to the country makes a difference," Hvilshøj says, "There is an inverse correlation between how many come here and how well we can receive the foreigners that come." And on Muslim immigrants needing to demonstrate a willingness to blend in, "In my view, Denmark should be a country with room for different cultures and religions. Some values,
however, are more important than others. We refuse to question democracy, equal rights, and freedom of speech."
Hvilshoj has paid a price for her show of backbone. Perhaps to test her resolve, the leading radical imam in Denmark, Ahmed Abdel Rahman Abu
Laban, demanded that the government pay blood money to the family of a Muslim who was murdered in a suburb of Copenhagen, stating that the family's thirst for revenge could be thwarted for money. When Hvilshoj dismissed his demand, he argued that in Muslim culture the payment of retribution money was common, to which Hvilshoj replied that what is done in a Muslim country is not necessarily what is done in Denmark. The Muslim reply came soon after: her house was torched while she, her husband and children slept. All managed to escape unharmed, but she and her family were moved to a secret location and she and other ministers were assigned bodyguards for the first time - in a country where such murderous violence was once so scarce.
Her government has slid to the right, and her borders have tightened. Many believe that what happens in the next decade will determine
whether Denmark survives as a bastion of good living, humane thinking and social responsibility, or whether it becomes a nation at civil war with
supporters of Sharia law.
And meanwhile, the US and Canada clamor for stricter immigration policies, and demand an end to state welfare programs that allow many immigrants to live on the public dole. As we in Canada and the US look at
the enclaves of Muslims amongst us, and see those who enter our shores too easily, dare live on our taxes, yet refuse to embrace our culture, respect our traditions, participate in our legal system, obey our laws, speak our language, appreciate our history. We would do well to look to Denmark, and say a prayer for her future and for our own.
I say, "give them a land or their own". Antacrctica comes to mind.
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harry hackedoff
- Member
- Posts: 14415
- Joined: Tue 19 Feb, 2002 12:00 am
I`ve read that 
It`s in chapter nine of "Stating The Bleedin` Obvious"
The problem is the Saudi arrangement between the house of Saud and the wahabi sect. Wahabi clerics let the Sauds do wtf they like and the Sauds contribute financially to the wahabi madrassars which are anything but the "muslim colleges" they claim. Wahabis have one goal, it`s a very simple goal. The world is in two parts, the muslim and the non-muslim. Anyone in the non-muslim part is an infidel and the shit on the sole of your shoe is of more consequence.
Their aim is to unify the whole world to the muslim way. And they do not care how they achieve that aim.
Yes, we all know moderate muslims.
They aren`t the problem.
It`s in chapter nine of "Stating The Bleedin` Obvious"
The problem is the Saudi arrangement between the house of Saud and the wahabi sect. Wahabi clerics let the Sauds do wtf they like and the Sauds contribute financially to the wahabi madrassars which are anything but the "muslim colleges" they claim. Wahabis have one goal, it`s a very simple goal. The world is in two parts, the muslim and the non-muslim. Anyone in the non-muslim part is an infidel and the shit on the sole of your shoe is of more consequence.
Their aim is to unify the whole world to the muslim way. And they do not care how they achieve that aim.
Yes, we all know moderate muslims.
They aren`t the problem.
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The Southerner
- Member
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Wed 30 Aug, 2006 12:15 pm
- Location: Trying to get the p*ss smell out of my boots
Good post. I only hope the UK takes the same stance before it's too late.anglo-saxon wrote:Everyone knows a moderate Muslim or two. The bottom line for me, though, is that Islam as a whole is not a moderate pholosophy. I say this based not on traditional Islam, but on the way that Islam is being implemeted today. And the fact is that the top dog (Ayatollah) for the World's Islam is in Iran, a singularly extreme and totalitarian society, with nothing but Islamic law and from whence all fatwahs and jihads eminate. As long as extremists are at the decision-making hub of this religion, I most certainly WILL say that I am anti-Moslem. They are singularly intollerant, expansionist, brutal, and anti-integration.
Not sure if this has been posted before (if so...tough!). Here's Denmark's story...
Denmark's story.
I say, "give them a land or their own". Antacrctica comes to mind.
Tolerating other cultures and faiths is one thing. Sacrificing our national identity to try and accomodate them and keep them happy is something else entireley.
Different cultures with vastly different views and ideologies are NEVER going to exist in close proximity without there being friction. We need to abandon this liberal, "PC" wishy-washy idea of a happy, multi-faith society and get real:
Yes you can live in the UK IF you're going to contribute to our society and/or economy, you can practice your religion, you can be left to get on with it. No you can't sponge off welfare, stir up trouble or publicly slag-off Britain/the British way of life. If you don't like it, fook off to a country run by a government who shares your views, because this is BRITAIN and we are BRITISH.
Application submitted: 16-01-08
Psychometric tests: 30-01-08 (Passed)
Eye test: 03-02-08 (Passed)
Interview: 07-02-08 (Passed)
Medical: 12-02-08 (Passed)
PJFT: Delayed due to having the knees of a 14 year old girl
Psychometric tests: 30-01-08 (Passed)
Eye test: 03-02-08 (Passed)
Interview: 07-02-08 (Passed)
Medical: 12-02-08 (Passed)
PJFT: Delayed due to having the knees of a 14 year old girl
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Hyperlithe
- Member
- Posts: 2229
- Joined: Fri 21 May, 2004 1:53 pm
- Location: It's a secret...
Anyone else see the interview the other night with the Pakistani lad who had been recruited as a suicide bomber to cross the border into Afghanistan and blow himself up next to the head of border security? These guys don't even know that the Afghans are Muslims!!!
You can have peace.
Or you can have freedom.
Don't ever count on having both at once.
***********************************
The life that I have
Is all that I have
And the life that I have
Is yours
Or you can have freedom.
Don't ever count on having both at once.
***********************************
The life that I have
Is all that I have
And the life that I have
Is yours
