Lord Butler is due to publish his report on the decision on going to war in Iraq on July 14th 2004. It is likely to severely criticise the security services in the advice given to Blair and Hoon on the threat of WMD, which was subsequently passed on to Bush.
There has been a bit of 'softening the blow' in the past few days from select figures within Government Circles, including the former British Ambassador to Iraq and by The Leader of the Commons, Peter Hain MP.
Article from the Independent follows:
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politi ... ory=537972
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Lord Butler Inquiry on WMD
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Spannerman
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Spannerman
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Well now its the time the CIA were brought to book for telling Porky Pies. Today a US Senate Committee heavily criticised the CIA for the misleading information in to going to war with Saddam, this is prior to next Wednesdays (presumed) damning of the UK security services advise to Blair/Straw/Hoon etc.
Isn't it strange where most of us laymen could see through this wheeze more than 18 months ago but those in power who are paid megabucks to represent us can't see the wood for the trees.
Isn't it strange where most of us laymen could see through this wheeze more than 18 months ago but those in power who are paid megabucks to represent us can't see the wood for the trees.
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Frank S.
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Spannerman
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..............and did you see the inked out pieces in the report that John D Rockefella was holding!Frank S. wrote:Still smacks of a whitewash: the report states no pressure from the white house could be documented, and it effectively takes the spotlight away from Cheney's visits to CIA as well as the Office of Special Plans of the Pentagon.
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Frank S.
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More than a few people are grumbling at the amount of 'blacked out' material. Because after all, the report is a Senate document and covers information which has been widely analyzed in open sources.
There may be a few references which require this black out treatment, but probably not all that much.
But hey, I read this this A.M., and it just floored me, I'm just astounded by this, if it's true of course....
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040711/323/exr9r.html
PM to escape serious censure in Iraq intelligence report
LONDON (AFP) - Prime Minister Tony Blair will escape severe censure next week when an official inquiry gives its conclusions about intelligence failings ahead of the Iraq war.
The premier will face some criticism for an over-presidential style of government, but will not be accused of urging spy chiefs to hype up the threat posed by Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction (WMD) stocks, newspapers said Sunday.
Instead, a senior intelligence officer and Blair's chief political adviser will be most in the firing line when Lord Robin Butler presents his findings on Wednesday.
Blair tasked Butler, a former head of the civil service, in February with looking into possible failures of intelligence which led to the belief that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein possessed WMDs.
None have been found since Saddam was deposed by a US-led war last year, severely denting Blair's credibility.
A similar report in the United States reported on Friday, and while it criticised US intelligence agencies, it largely absolved the administration of President George W. Bush.
The Sunday Telegraph said Blair would also escape beyond some concerns at his style of government, notably the informal gatherings which decide many important decisions.
The broadsheet warned that Jonathan Powell, an unelected adviser who is Blair's chief of staff, would be the "main victim" of Butler report.
The inquiry was particularly worried about an e-mail written by Powell in September 2002 to a senior intelligence official, John Scarlett, suggesting changes to a government dossier setting out the public case for war.
Powell asked that a section of the dossier by "redrafted" as it appeared to present Saddam only as a threat if Iraq was under attack, changes which Scarlett, chairman of Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) agreed to.
The Sunday Times predicted that Scarlett -- whom Blair named in May as the new head of intelligence agency MI6 -- would also face criticism.
"It says that in the future, intelligence must not be misused for the purposes of making a political point," someone identified as a "senior official" who had read final draft told the Sunday Times.
The prime minister himself was set to treat the report with defiance, still insisting the decision to go to war was correct, the Sunday Times added.
According to the Independent on Sunday, the report was expected to be "less fierce" than the US Senate equivalent last week.
Nonetheless, Butler was withholding some key criticisms from documents seen by the government to prevent ministers from trying to manipulate media coverage, it added.
There may be a few references which require this black out treatment, but probably not all that much.
But hey, I read this this A.M., and it just floored me, I'm just astounded by this, if it's true of course....
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/040711/323/exr9r.html
PM to escape serious censure in Iraq intelligence report
LONDON (AFP) - Prime Minister Tony Blair will escape severe censure next week when an official inquiry gives its conclusions about intelligence failings ahead of the Iraq war.
The premier will face some criticism for an over-presidential style of government, but will not be accused of urging spy chiefs to hype up the threat posed by Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction (WMD) stocks, newspapers said Sunday.
Instead, a senior intelligence officer and Blair's chief political adviser will be most in the firing line when Lord Robin Butler presents his findings on Wednesday.
Blair tasked Butler, a former head of the civil service, in February with looking into possible failures of intelligence which led to the belief that Iraqi leader Saddam Hussein possessed WMDs.
None have been found since Saddam was deposed by a US-led war last year, severely denting Blair's credibility.
A similar report in the United States reported on Friday, and while it criticised US intelligence agencies, it largely absolved the administration of President George W. Bush.
The Sunday Telegraph said Blair would also escape beyond some concerns at his style of government, notably the informal gatherings which decide many important decisions.
The broadsheet warned that Jonathan Powell, an unelected adviser who is Blair's chief of staff, would be the "main victim" of Butler report.
The inquiry was particularly worried about an e-mail written by Powell in September 2002 to a senior intelligence official, John Scarlett, suggesting changes to a government dossier setting out the public case for war.
Powell asked that a section of the dossier by "redrafted" as it appeared to present Saddam only as a threat if Iraq was under attack, changes which Scarlett, chairman of Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) agreed to.
The Sunday Times predicted that Scarlett -- whom Blair named in May as the new head of intelligence agency MI6 -- would also face criticism.
"It says that in the future, intelligence must not be misused for the purposes of making a political point," someone identified as a "senior official" who had read final draft told the Sunday Times.
The prime minister himself was set to treat the report with defiance, still insisting the decision to go to war was correct, the Sunday Times added.
According to the Independent on Sunday, the report was expected to be "less fierce" than the US Senate equivalent last week.
Nonetheless, Butler was withholding some key criticisms from documents seen by the government to prevent ministers from trying to manipulate media coverage, it added.
I was watching tv the other night and George Bush was on there holding a 'questions and answers' session where he claimed that he and his adminstration never said that Iraq 'definately' had WMD but it was likely that they might have some, somewhere.
From there it cut to a film of Colin Powell, eighteen months previous, paper's in hand saying that Iraq DEFINATELY had WMD and that these claims were backed up by hard facts(of which we were not allowed to see mind) and 'positive' intelligence straight from 'the source'.
Back to the inquiry-it'll sounds like a complete white wash to me. Wasn't some of the 'evidence' copyed off of the internet from some blokes term paper?.
From there it cut to a film of Colin Powell, eighteen months previous, paper's in hand saying that Iraq DEFINATELY had WMD and that these claims were backed up by hard facts(of which we were not allowed to see mind) and 'positive' intelligence straight from 'the source'.
Back to the inquiry-it'll sounds like a complete white wash to me. Wasn't some of the 'evidence' copyed off of the internet from some blokes term paper?.
fall down seven times, get up eight.
Japanese proverb
Japanese proverb
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Spannerman
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B Liar walks on water, like all the other close shaves he has had in recent UK political history. He will be dunked in the oggin on Wednesday only to come to the surface with a flotation collar with that bloody great cheesy grin on his face.
He will not apologise, that would be a sign of weakness from him, he thinks everyone knows he was right in going to war on a false premise, probably John Scarlett will carry the can letting B Liar off the hook.
Sad really as people like the Beeb chiefs and Gillighan had to resign, a top scientist cut his own wrists and over 50 of our servicemen have had to die and three billion £ spent on a political whim!
He will not apologise, that would be a sign of weakness from him, he thinks everyone knows he was right in going to war on a false premise, probably John Scarlett will carry the can letting B Liar off the hook.
Sad really as people like the Beeb chiefs and Gillighan had to resign, a top scientist cut his own wrists and over 50 of our servicemen have had to die and three billion £ spent on a political whim!
I got the truth, they knew, they all did. Saddam was a horrible, evil sick twisted man down to the paper and even the Iraq court now knows!
http://www.rockpapersaddam.com/index.html
http://www.rockpapersaddam.com/index.html
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)
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Ex-URNU-Student
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Spannerman
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Yes I saw Panorama last night and I watched it again this morning.
Our President Blair under Campbell and the Intel bods were working in cahoots with one another. I must not pre-empt the Butler Inquiries statement on Wednesday and trying to dismiss out of my mind what the US Senate committee has declared, I just want to see where the blame is going to lie on Wednesday.
If the failings are the Intelligence Chiefs then the lot of them should resign for keeping their mouths firmly shut, if Blair is in the slightest leaning of lying should resign. If Straw and Hoon went along with Blair they too should go.
I doubt that there will be an apologies from anyone for anything if their is any damning to be dished out. This is the way politics has been run in the UK for a decade now, the whole thing is run by sham barristers who think they know how to bend the truth.
Our President Blair under Campbell and the Intel bods were working in cahoots with one another. I must not pre-empt the Butler Inquiries statement on Wednesday and trying to dismiss out of my mind what the US Senate committee has declared, I just want to see where the blame is going to lie on Wednesday.
If the failings are the Intelligence Chiefs then the lot of them should resign for keeping their mouths firmly shut, if Blair is in the slightest leaning of lying should resign. If Straw and Hoon went along with Blair they too should go.
I doubt that there will be an apologies from anyone for anything if their is any damning to be dished out. This is the way politics has been run in the UK for a decade now, the whole thing is run by sham barristers who think they know how to bend the truth.
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Spannerman
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Lord Butler publishes his report on Weapons of Mass Destruction and how this led us in going to war in Iraq at 1230hrs today.
The following is extracted from the BBC News Online service:
As the Butler Report is published into the pre-war intelligence on Iraq's weapons, here are some of the key statements made by the prime minister about Saddam Hussein's weapons - before and after the war.
10 April 2002, House of Commons
"Saddam Hussein's regime is despicable, he is developing weapons of mass destruction, and we cannot leave him doing so unchecked.
"He is a threat to his own people and to the region and, if allowed to develop these weapons, a threat to us also."
Full story
24 September 2002, House of Commons
"It [the intelligence service] concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shia population; and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability..."
Full story
25 February 2003, House of Commons
"The intelligence is clear: (Saddam) continues to believe his WMD programme is essential both for internal repression and for external aggression.
"The biological agents we believe Iraq can produce include anthrax, botulinum, toxin, aflatoxin and ricin. All eventually result in excruciatingly painful death."
Full story
11 March 2003, MTV debate
"If we don't act now, then we will go back to what has happened before and then of course the whole thing begins again and he carries on developing these weapons and these are dangerous weapons, particularly if they fall into the hands of terrorists who we know want to use these weapons if they can get them."
Full story
18 March 2003, House of Commons
"We are asked now seriously to accept that in the last few years-contrary to all history, contrary to all intelligence-Saddam decided unilaterally to destroy those weapons. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd."
Full story
4 June 2003, House of Commons
"There are literally thousands of sites. As I was told in Iraq, information is coming in the entire time, but it is only now that the Iraq survey group has been put together that a dedicated team of people, which includes former UN inspectors, scientists and experts, will be able to go in and do the job properly.
"As I have said throughout, I have no doubt that they will find the clearest possible evidence of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction."
Full story
8 July 2003, Evidence to Commons liaison committee
"I don't concede it at all that the intelligence at the time was wrong.
"I have absolutely no doubt at all that we will find evidence of weapons of mass destruction programmes."
Full story
16 December 2003, Interview with British Forces Broadcasting Service
"The Iraq Survey Group has already found massive evidence of a huge system of clandestine laboratories, workings by scientists, plans to develop long range ballistic missiles."
Full story
16 December 2003, Interview with BBC Arabic Service
"I don't think it's surprising we will have to look for them. I'm confident that when the Iraq Survey Group has done its work we will find what's happened to those weapons because he had them."
4 January, 2004, Speech to British forces near Basra, Iraq
"Repressive states are developing weapons that could cause destruction on a massive scale."
Full story
11 January 2004 , Interview with BBC Breakfast with Frost
What you can say is that we received that intelligence about Saddam's programmes and about his weapons that we acted on that, it's the case throughout the whole of the conflict.
I remember having conversations with the chief of defence staff and other people were saying well, we think we might have potential WMD find here or there.
Now these things didn't actually come to anything in the end, but I don't know is the answer. And what I do know is that the group of people that are in there now, this Iraq survey group, they produced an interim report."
Full story
25 January 2004, Interview with the Observer newspaper
"I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the intelligence was genuine.
"It is absurd to say in respect of any intelligence that it is infallible, but if you ask me what I believe, I believe the intelligence was correct, and I think in the end we will have an explanation."
Full story
3 February, 2004, evidence to Commons liaison committee
"What is true about (ex-Iraq Survey Group head) David Kay's evidence, and this is something I have to accept, and is one of the reasons why I think we now need a new inquiry - it is true David Kay is saying we have not found large stockpiles of actual weapons."
Full story
6 June, 2004, BBC Radio 4 Today programme
"What we also know is we haven't found them [weapons of mass destruction] in Iraq - now let the survey group complete its work and give us the report... They will not report that there was no threat from Saddam, I don't believe."
Full story
6 July, 2004, evidence to Commons Liaison Committee
"I have to accept we haven't found them (WMD) and we may never find them, We don't know what has happened to them. "They could have been removed. They could have been hidden. They could have been destroyed."
Full story
The following is extracted from the BBC News Online service:
As the Butler Report is published into the pre-war intelligence on Iraq's weapons, here are some of the key statements made by the prime minister about Saddam Hussein's weapons - before and after the war.
10 April 2002, House of Commons
"Saddam Hussein's regime is despicable, he is developing weapons of mass destruction, and we cannot leave him doing so unchecked.
"He is a threat to his own people and to the region and, if allowed to develop these weapons, a threat to us also."
Full story
24 September 2002, House of Commons
"It [the intelligence service] concludes that Iraq has chemical and biological weapons, that Saddam has continued to produce them, that he has existing and active military plans for the use of chemical and biological weapons, which could be activated within 45 minutes, including against his own Shia population; and that he is actively trying to acquire nuclear weapons capability..."
Full story
25 February 2003, House of Commons
"The intelligence is clear: (Saddam) continues to believe his WMD programme is essential both for internal repression and for external aggression.
"The biological agents we believe Iraq can produce include anthrax, botulinum, toxin, aflatoxin and ricin. All eventually result in excruciatingly painful death."
Full story
11 March 2003, MTV debate
"If we don't act now, then we will go back to what has happened before and then of course the whole thing begins again and he carries on developing these weapons and these are dangerous weapons, particularly if they fall into the hands of terrorists who we know want to use these weapons if they can get them."
Full story
18 March 2003, House of Commons
"We are asked now seriously to accept that in the last few years-contrary to all history, contrary to all intelligence-Saddam decided unilaterally to destroy those weapons. I say that such a claim is palpably absurd."
Full story
4 June 2003, House of Commons
"There are literally thousands of sites. As I was told in Iraq, information is coming in the entire time, but it is only now that the Iraq survey group has been put together that a dedicated team of people, which includes former UN inspectors, scientists and experts, will be able to go in and do the job properly.
"As I have said throughout, I have no doubt that they will find the clearest possible evidence of Saddam's weapons of mass destruction."
Full story
8 July 2003, Evidence to Commons liaison committee
"I don't concede it at all that the intelligence at the time was wrong.
"I have absolutely no doubt at all that we will find evidence of weapons of mass destruction programmes."
Full story
16 December 2003, Interview with British Forces Broadcasting Service
"The Iraq Survey Group has already found massive evidence of a huge system of clandestine laboratories, workings by scientists, plans to develop long range ballistic missiles."
Full story
16 December 2003, Interview with BBC Arabic Service
"I don't think it's surprising we will have to look for them. I'm confident that when the Iraq Survey Group has done its work we will find what's happened to those weapons because he had them."
4 January, 2004, Speech to British forces near Basra, Iraq
"Repressive states are developing weapons that could cause destruction on a massive scale."
Full story
11 January 2004 , Interview with BBC Breakfast with Frost
What you can say is that we received that intelligence about Saddam's programmes and about his weapons that we acted on that, it's the case throughout the whole of the conflict.
I remember having conversations with the chief of defence staff and other people were saying well, we think we might have potential WMD find here or there.
Now these things didn't actually come to anything in the end, but I don't know is the answer. And what I do know is that the group of people that are in there now, this Iraq survey group, they produced an interim report."
Full story
25 January 2004, Interview with the Observer newspaper
"I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that the intelligence was genuine.
"It is absurd to say in respect of any intelligence that it is infallible, but if you ask me what I believe, I believe the intelligence was correct, and I think in the end we will have an explanation."
Full story
3 February, 2004, evidence to Commons liaison committee
"What is true about (ex-Iraq Survey Group head) David Kay's evidence, and this is something I have to accept, and is one of the reasons why I think we now need a new inquiry - it is true David Kay is saying we have not found large stockpiles of actual weapons."
Full story
6 June, 2004, BBC Radio 4 Today programme
"What we also know is we haven't found them [weapons of mass destruction] in Iraq - now let the survey group complete its work and give us the report... They will not report that there was no threat from Saddam, I don't believe."
Full story
6 July, 2004, evidence to Commons Liaison Committee
"I have to accept we haven't found them (WMD) and we may never find them, We don't know what has happened to them. "They could have been removed. They could have been hidden. They could have been destroyed."
Full story
