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Alright lads, haven't posted on here for quite a while. Been away in various places doing various things (including a toga party with some lads from Cdo Log Regt RM in Gibraltar). If this post is teaching you to suck eggs then apologies, but it was new to me so I'm guessing it may be new to rather a lot of you as well (Jesus! I can really waffle can't I).

Anyway, I'll get to the point. I was at the gym today as I've recently got back into training with weights (I was losing too much strength just doing body weight exercises) and I got talking to one of the personal trainers there about the correct techniques etc for doing weights. I mentioned that I wanted to join the Royal Marines and therefore I didn't want to be doing lots of heavy weights that would turn me into a meat head who can't run.

He said that the best way to train for the kind of fitness that we require is as follows:

1. Stabilisation Phase - 6 weeks
Light weights
3 sets of 20 reps in each exercise
2-3 times a week

2. Strength Phase - 6 weeks
Medium weights
3 sets of 12 reps in each exercise
2-3 times a week

3. Power Phase - 2 weeks
Heavy weights
3 sets of 6 reps in each exercise
2-3 times a week

Notes
1. Once you've done it all you go back to the beginning & start again, either increasing the weight or the number of reps.
2. At the end of each set you should be struggling, so you need to choose a weight that is right for you.
3. Technique is key, think about what muscles you are trying to exercise & only use those muscles. If you don't know - ask!
4. The exercises you choose to do are up to you. However, it would probably be an idea to talk to someone 'in the know' about what you are trying to achieve & what the best exercises are to do it.

It may be complete BS but I doubt it. The guy said he had just trained someone using this method & the guy is now in training at CTCRM and apparently doing well. He also said that a few of his mates are former Royals and they agree with this training method.

Obviously you must keep up your running and press-ups, sit-ups and chin-ups as well. This is designed to supplement your training schedule.

Anyway, give it a go & see what you think. I started it today & I feel more knackered than I normally do after a weights session.

Dan

That's pretty much what I do. But I combine it all together...e.g

1 x 15 reps
1 x 12 reps
1 x 6 reps

Then I'll have a rest and do the opposing muscle (e.g if just worked bicep then do the tricep).

Then I'll have a rest then do the reps again but work the muscle from a different angle (e.g if just done bicep curls then do hammer curl). I spent about 10 hours a week in the gym doing this. The thing I've noticed is I haven't put on much bulk I've just gained loads of power and muscle deffinition.

when i go to the gym i do arm curls with 12.5 kg dumbells doing 20 reps 10 each arm. then while resting i do arm curls with barbell (25 kg)

then work the rest of the muscles.

i work the arms for 35 mins

u dont need to do weights!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
all u have to do on prmc is press ups pull ups and have good core strength

Weights aren't required so i stopped training for about a month prior to PRMC, having been 'working out' for a number of years. Just focussed on press-ups, pull-ups etc for upper body strength. It worked- i passed.

Started weight training again after PRMC and felt like a weakling and ached for days. Was most dissapointed, so now i work out just once or twice a week max, with numerous press-up sets between sessions, just to 'top up' my strength. This is more out of choice than necessity.

I don't do weights really. All I do is my biceps and triceps. I do tricep dips on parallel bars and on two chairs, pull ups, press ups (three different kinds) and arms weights. All the arms weights do is work the muscles you use whilst doing press ups and pull ups anyway, so it makes no odds.

I don't personally see the problem with doing weights as long as you don't turn up a big unflexable mass. You can never have too strong arms.

dannyd,

Haven't been in the RM but I went to Sandhurst. Being muscle-bound and really strong is probably the last thing that will matter in training. I was one of the biggest men at RMAS and it meant nothing.

When it comes time to do pressups and heaves the PTI's probably won't give you enough time to do it properly anyway, so just worry about running and moving quickly over long distances with weight.

A civilian personal trainer will tell you to work different muscle groups different days, get lots of sleep and eat right. In training, you'll work all muscle groups at once, get no sleep and eat an above average amount of sugar and fat. Why bother?

So what if you can bench press 60 kg plus the bar 20 times? How fast can you dig a shell scrape? Can you be the recruit who can help more than 20 other big men over a 12 foot wall then climb up yourself.

Worry about cardio now. Weight training is little more than a hobby to be dealt with after training is over.

Forgive me for being blunt, but I'm convinced from experience at RMAS its the truth.

df2

I'm going to add something here.

Worry about cardio now. Weight training is little more than a hobby to be dealt with after training is over.

I believe whatever your goal is be it army or Royal Marines, that 1-2 weight sessions a week is recommended to complement your running program.

You will require a fair amount of explosive power, especially in the lower body.

However it is very important that you do the correct types of exercises when do you train.

You need to do Compound exercises, which work a large variety of muscle groups. Not Isolation exercsies.

Remember your goal is to try and develop power and raw strength not mass by isolating each and every muscle group (Hypotrophy).

The movements that I would recommend to concentrate on would be Squat, Romanian Deadlift and Bench Press.

In my opinion the RDL is probably the most practical exercise you can do, it works pretty much every muscle in the body. All of the leg muscles (especially the hamstrings), lower back (very important), traps and forearms. It should be the heaviest movement you do, more than squat or bench press. If it is less than the previous two exercises then you need to strenghten your lower back now, do this with bodyweight back exercises and EZ-bar good mornings.

So forget your bicep curls and tricep kickbacks your wasting energy and recovery time which could be put to much better use. Compound exercises will give you sufficent strength in these areas

Concentrating purely on cardio will leave you weak and generally less robust over all.

dannyd wrote:... Anyway, give it a go & see what you think. I started it today & I feel more knackered than I normally do after a weights session.

I did a lot of weightlifting when I was in my 20s and have some thoughts for you.

1. Bodybuilding and strength training are two different things. The former is mainly a cosmetic exercise, whereas the latter is muscle building. They can be combined, but the means of combining them is different than most people would suppose.

2. There is no such thing as being "musclebound." To maintain flexibility, you need to be sure to do a lot of stretching. Similarly, weight training is not going to interfere with your ability to run. If running is a priority, simply include legs in your routines.

3. For strength training, less is more. Most weight trainers make the mistake of overcomplicating their routines and then adding exercises when they're not making progress. I know it's counter-intuitive, but if you're not making progress you're probably doing too much.

4. A good strength routine is:

- Squats and benchpress 2x a week. Deadlifts and leg press 1x a week.

- Pyramid style. 8 reps at half the maxminum. 6 reps at 75% of max. 2-3 reps at 90% of max. 1 rep at last week's max. 1 rep at a new max attempt. 2-3 reps at 90% of max. 6 reps at 75% of max.

- ALWAYS use spotters, safety equipment and a weight belt when doing squats, deadlifts and leg press. You only get one backbone in life, so treat it nicely.

- If you're not making progress on this routine, drop the leg presses.

- Eat like crazy. Lots of protein but also carbs and fats. Strength trainers never look like Arnold Schwarzenegger. When I was bulking up I would eat, among other things, half a dozen eggs a day and a can of tuna fish.

5. Bodybuilding is a matter of defining the muscles you have, which means eliminating fat. Bodybuilding routines mean adjusting your diet to reduce bodyfat percentage, and doing multiple exercises to exhaustion and hitting the gym 4x a week. Lots of reps, not at peak weights, hitting many different muscle groups.

6. Some people who want to be strong AND look good will alternate between strength and bodybuilding routines, going through cycles of "bulking up" and "leaning out." This is hard on your body, and hard on your clothing budget. But it can be done.

7. An alternative is to use anabolic steroids. They make it possible to rapidly increase strength and muscle size, and to do so while maintaining more lean definition. There are significant issues with steroids:


- They're illegal in many places
- They can cause an increase in aggressiveness, known as "steroid rage"
- There is a wide range of physical side effects including acne-like skin rashes and testicular atrophy
- Once you stop taking them, the strength and size gains tend to reverse themselves. This is especially the case if you take a lot of them and make sudden gains.
- Steroids are often psychologically addictive, and some say physically addictive although I think it's psychology
- If you're going to use steroids, the only sane way to do it is to find a doctor who will prescribe them and guide you in their safe use for bodybuilding
- Dietary supplements are an expensive joke


8. Don't run while you're doing the strength training. It will interfere. Use running as part of the "leaning out" process. Imagine that you start out at 150 lbs. Over a four-month period you bulk up to 170 lbs, but half the gain is pure fat. You break from the strength training, start running, change your diet and go to a bodybuilding routine. You lose 10 lbs. over three months and you're at 160 lbs. Then you go back to strength training and go to 180 lbs. Then you lean down to 170, and so on.

9. This whole thing is a long-term endeavor, which means you shouldn't go into it with a huge intensity to start. You'll be changing the way you live, and changes of that nature "stick" much better if you start off gradually. Start with six months or so of familiarization routines at the gym, which will more closely resemble bodybuilding than strength training. Get used to the rhythm of it all, and get over those first episodes of really sore muscles. You'll make a lot of muscle and strength gains during this period and then you'll hit a plateau. That's the time to start the strength training.

Hope this all helps. I speak from personal experience. It works.

Another observation. Weightlifting's image has been formed to a large degree by Arnold Schwarzenegger. He is purely a bodybuilder and always has been. I could never prove it, but if someone could conclusively demonstrate to me that Schwarzenegger didn't use steroids I would chop my computer into little pieces and eat them. Ahhhnold is not, never has been and never will be an athlete. He is a male beauty contestant who started out handsome and got the equivelent of breast implants along the way, which is to say he is a girly-man whose muscles and Austrian accent allow him to pose as something he is not, i.e., athlete and tough guy. Hey, it's Hollywood, California. Reality is a capital crime there , so don't measure your progress by that yardstick or against the men in those glossy magazines. They're all beauty contestants on steroids. Every single one of them. Really.

A final observation. As someone before me pointed out, squats, benches and deadlifts are comprehensive exercises. They build overall strength. From what I've picked up from friends in the U.S. military, their training focuses on comprehensive strength, endurance and agility, too. I'm not sure if they still do it, but for a long time the USMC would have groups of trainees run on a beach holding a telephone pole over their heads. That's the kind of stuff that makes people strong, and it builds muscle along the way. I think the gym is for civilians.

Synder,

That was a good post, summing up a great deal.

What needs to be said though is that keep all your weight training applicable to uses in the military (If that is your goal of course).

From my experience (Which is not a great deal, but I think I've done my research and given it a go), people do not do enough lower body; and with the sheer amount of running, sprinting and jumping it comes to me as a surprise.

The majority of required upper-body strength can be achieved through body-weight and a few compound exercises.

P.S.
Arnold definantly was a juicer, in fact every pro body-builder is. There is a limit to what the human body can grow in terms of muscle size without the help of excessive amounts of anabolic hormones.

However you can continue to grow strong. Size does not always mean strength.

My post was about weight training in general. Since I'm a civilian, all I know about the military is what I read and hear. From those sources, I surmise that overall strength and endurance are the most important things. I strongly agree that there is only a loose correlation between muscle size and physical strength. Olympic weightlifters are always large men, but they are "purpose built" for weightlifting. The military, from my understanding of it, requires a far more comprehensive skill set from its members, including infantry ground-pounders.

Among those who build strength as a means rather than as an end, my observation is that almost all the really strong guys I've known have a wiry build. So if you're going to hit the gym, at the very least be honest with yourself about what you're trying to achieve. Nothing wrong with a hybrid approach of wanting to get stronger and look better. You'll have the best chance of achieving those goals if you explicitly acknowledge them, including the vanity aspect, at least to your own self.

Oh, and on the vanity angle if you think you're doing it to attract women, think again. It's about raising your place in the male pecking order. Perfectly acceptable motive, but see it for what it is.

Right, I've finally managed to get back on here to defend my corner (I was locked out of logging on for some reason & I've been away again).

Despite some good posts on this subject (notably from Snyder) I think much of what I said has been taken out of context. Most people have just seen that I've mentioned weight training and have lept to cry "NO! You don't need to do that - it's bad!". Well, fair enough - everyone has opinions.

However, in my original post I mentioned that:
1. I did not want to turn into a meat head who can't run
2. You still need to continue with running & press-ups etc...
3. This is designed to supplement your training, not replace it

I probably should have mentioned that the power phase has been cut down from 6 weeks to 2 weeks in this programme as gaining bulk is not what we want to achieve.

Personally I've found that I'm better at all the body weight exercises when I'm regularly training with weights (by regularly I mean a maximum of twice a week). When I stopped weight training my press-up & chin-up scores decreased despite working on these exercises more.

Anyway, I had my unit BFT last Monday and my scores were as follows:

1.5 mile run - 08.06
Press-ups (in 1 min) - 57 (up from 40ish)
Situps (in 1 min) - 68 (up from 50ish)
Chin-ups (overhand grasp) - 23 (up from 16-18 )

I've not posted these to blow my own trumpet, but merely to show that when used correctly to supplement your training weights can make a difference. So long as you don't go OTT and start to do too much weight too often you should be fine.

Dan

PS Df2inaus, this is not a dig at you at all. I don't think you were being blunt, you were merely voicing your opinion. I agree with what you say about bulk, but that is not what I'm trying to achieve - strength is the aim.

dannyd

Good luck with the rest of your program, it sound like you have made good gains in your fuctional strength.

It goes to show that weight training is beneficial to any cardiovascular program.

Many people on here seem to think that by doing weights for a couple of months they are going to turn into a bulky oversized behemoth.

This is not true.

You dont believe me.....

Look at natural bodybuilders as oppose to Arnold and the others, there is a slight difference in size you will notice.

To gain serious mass, is incredibly hard; requering years of hypertrophic training, diet and supplementation.

The sprinter Darren campell regularly performs 200kg squats and he is one of the leanest sprinters in the sport.

So lads, train safely and correctly and know your goal. Stop worrying.

ENDEX.

dannyd, your routine sounds o.k., and the point of my long postings was to give practical advice. In particular, if people are going to train with weights they'd do well to understand the specific purposes involved. I've seen so many people go into the gym wanting to get big & strong and, when they hit a plateau, responding by doing more exercises on more muscle groups rather than by cutting back and shifting to a pure strength routine.

By the way: Beware of "natural bodybuilders" that you sometimes see pictured in magazines. Often, they're lying straightaway or maybe they were once using steroids and at the time of the photograph had stopped. There's a whole lot of deception in the bodybuilding world. The worst thing you can do is look at those glossy magazines.