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Victoria Cross

General discussions on joining & training in the Royal Marines.
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Sisyphus
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Victoria Cross

#1 Post by Sisyphus » Sun 04 Apr, 2004 9:50 pm

Sorry, folks,

Just been prompted to 'drop in' by Jeremy Clarkson's presentation of the VC on BBC2 tonight:

First off, I wish no disrespect to the guy himself or any cherry berets out there but............

When we consider Col H Jones' actions in the Falklands against those of other VC winners described by J.C. (he of the motor-ego) [or even guys, who'd been rejected for the award] are they of the same order? Even remotely?????

And, no, I ain't back...... :( I just thought it an important issue I have strong views about and would be interested to hear other people's slant on.

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ashley
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#2 Post by ashley » Sun 04 Apr, 2004 10:09 pm

Crap! I missed it... again.

But so my post has some purpose...

http://www.victoriacross.net/default.asp - All 1354 VC's Fully Detailed

regards,
ash.

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#3 Post by Cav-Lad » Sun 04 Apr, 2004 10:13 pm

I also watch the program.
Not 100% sure on the circumstance beind lt col Jones's award. Just heard the dutie rumours which have curcled the whole British Army. Plus it helps being an Officer and a lt col at that. They have through out the years given the VC to officers alot more freely than to the ranks.

A lad in our Regiment as just become the youngest ever to be awarded the George Cross. He under fire managed to resuce two comrades from the turrets of a simitar. Which if you have been in one know how difficult that would be. And tried to return for a 3rd time to rescue another but was beaten back by the heat and sadly he died. But because the fire was friendly. And yes it was American, an A10 Tank Buster. And even though the A10 attacked 3 times while he was trying to rescue his mates and was wouded for his trouble. He was only entitled to the George Cross because it was'nt enemy fire.
Still it's buisness as usual seeing his name on orders for fatigues or gauard with GC after it.

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#4 Post by Ploggers » Sun 04 Apr, 2004 11:10 pm

I watched it tonight too. Good program and I take your point about Jones. As far as that particular VC (H Jones) is concerned, you could talk it round all night. Whatever was in his mind the fact remains that he did charge a machine gun position and was killed in the action. VC? possibly / possibly not.

Can we put one thing to bed. I personally know some guys who were in A Company, 2 Para. There are two in particular I know well enough to say that if this were true (and I have asked) I would know. The fact is that it's a good yarn but untrue. It happened as it is said to have happened.

We can debate that rights or otherwise as to why the captain of the ship was messing about in the engine room. We can question the tactics and politics of why 2 Para went to Goose Green at all. What is beyond debate is that Lt Col Jones VC did not die as a result of a British round.

As for your guy, Chris Finney I assume; the lad done good. Incidentally you said "only the GC" The GC and the VC are of equal stature. Why only?

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#5 Post by El Prez » Mon 05 Apr, 2004 10:07 am

Sisyphus, good to see you around.
The twist in the tail, with Jeremy Clarkson being married to the chaps daughter, and the daughter not knowing about her father's c@#t told by Clarkson was brilliant.
You should talk to somebody who gives a f**k.
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#6 Post by Sully » Mon 05 Apr, 2004 3:42 pm

Great to see the rock-pusher dipping in again :wink:

I remember reading about a fella called Charles Upham who apparently was "possessed by an icy fury" at the Germans and won it twice :o

Here's a link for starters:

http://www.hurunui.govt.nz/district/charles_upham.htm

Apparently he was given a lot of money after the war (some kind of whip round) but he donated it all (NZ$40k I think, to an educational fund for the children of those of his comrades who died). He'd never have any German machinery near his farm after the war for some reason :roll:
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#7 Post by Cav-Lad » Mon 05 Apr, 2004 5:41 pm

pongologs wrote:
As for your guy, Chris Finney I assume; the lad done good. Incidentally you said "only the GC" The GC and the VC are of equal stature. Why only?
Yes you are right. It's was just the way I worded it.

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#8 Post by Tab » Mon 05 Apr, 2004 7:02 pm

The George Cross is mainly a civilian award, and yes I do know a lad in the army won it for saving lives in the Gulf War Mk2.
We had a lad in our platoon who was at Arnhem and he had knocked out three German Tanks with a Sten Gun. His mate was blown to bits beside him by these tanks and he lost it for a while, so he charged them and climbed up on each one in turn and fired his sten through an observation slit killing the crew inside and knocked out each tank while under very heavy fire from the German Infantry and got back to the trenches unmarked. As this was not witnessed by an officer all he got was the MM, so it not what you do but just who see's you do it.
Last edited by Tab on Tue 06 Apr, 2004 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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#9 Post by Dave.Mil » Mon 05 Apr, 2004 7:13 pm

Tab has made a very good point about being seen by the right person. I know of somebody who got the MM for telling another person how to do something that the person should have known how to do (I hope you can follow this) over the radio. Hardly brave but he was an unfortunate pawn in a publicty grabbing exercise. I once read in a book about the dambuster squadron that there are two types of bravery, those who understand the risk but do it because it needs doing, and those who are too stupid to see the danger.

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