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just finished watchin some news

Count is 383 confirmed dead with 200 people more missing.

Cliodna wrote:

bigbart wrote:Of course it COULD happen, but our SF would make a much better job of it.

Under the same set of circumstances, who could say for certain that our lot would fair any better.

Even if our lot were ready to go at a moments notice, if they weren't in position when it all kicked off then I can't see that things would be different.

You can't keep blokes at a high state of readiness indefinately.

Depending on how many hostages where killed as result of the explosions and subsequent collapse of the gym roof (which could be very well where the majority of hostages were killed) than I can't see how our own forces could of made much difference to the casualty rate.

I wonder how many could of been saved if adequate medical facilities had been available at the scene?

Any thing is possible with hind sight.

I can't see how our guys could do any better.
I read one report that said the Chechen's were going to kill all the kids anyway. One group were going to plant the bombs etc. One group were scheduled to escape! And another group were going to be the "suicide bombers" (and cover the group that were supposed to escape!).
With that sort of mindset - no-one could improve on what happened.
We are lucky, we don't have Muslim Republics on our doorstep, as Russia does. And Chechnya is trying to become a Muslim Republic.
However - if we keep letting more and more Muslims into Britain, maybe they will be demanding one soon!!
If that sounds racist, then tough.!!
Sneaky.

My wife is a Primordial Russian, born and raised in Grozny.

Whilst she is obviously biased regarding the situation in Chechnya, she has lived with the problems in that troubled country that we can only perceive through the media. This is from her perspective.

Contrary to what many people think, Chechnya was not one of the fifteen countries that made up the Former Soviet Union but has been a part of Russia for over 400 years

Her ancestor. a high ranking military officer, was sent from Moscow to Chechnya as Military Govenor by King Ivan Grozny ( Ivan the Terrible ) in the late 1500's and that is where her ascendents ( on her fathers side )remained until 1997. At this time my wife was living in the Ukraine having left Grozny some years earlier to study at University in Odessa and subsequently made her life there, leaving her widowed mother and a few aunts and cousins in Chechnya.

After the fall of the Soviet Union, a former General in the Russian Military, ( Dudyav ) decided he wanted to line his pockets with as much as he could so he formed his own Mafia and went into the protection racket making people hand over 50% of their wages or risk losing their jobs. When the Chechnyan goverment, which was made up of Chechnyan and Russian's, tried to put a stop to his activities his answer was simple, he proceeded to assassinate the goverment ministers. He was later killed in a helicopter crash.!!!!!!

The Chechnyan goverment then requested Moscow to intervene and thats when it all went tits up. Prior to Perestroika, the primordial Chechnyan's were in a very small minority in Chechnya, but with the fall of the FSU they came back with a vengence from where Stalin had sent them. ( mainly Khasistan )

Obviously these returning people had nowhere to live and started on the ethnic cleansing of Russian property. My mother in law had a Chechnyan family turn up at her house and they placed a $100 dollars and a handgun on the table and said " the choice is yours " .

She had no choice but to accept and went to stay with her remaining relatives until it got to the stage where money was not even offered but people were murdered for their property.

It was at this point that my wife, at great personal risk, went to Grozny and brought her mother to the Ukraine. She tried to persuade her other relatives to go with her but they declined and said they would sit it out.
Eighteen months ago we received news that they had all had their throats cut and their bodies set alight to hide their features. All their identification papers were taken for whatever reason.

Bit of a sequal to this. The day of the Moscow theatre seige, our daughter, who is at University in Moscow , informed us that she had tickets to see the show at that theatre on that day, but obviously at that time we had no idea of what was to unfold.

When the news broke, we desperately tried to get in touch with her but with no result. We tried her mobile, her house phone, the University, The British Embassy, friends, just about everything with no luck. We had no option other than to get the first flight to Moscow ( The Russian Embassy in London had a guy meet me at Heathrow to stick a visa in my passport, all credit to them ) . We finally tracked young Gala down three days later.

She had collapsed in the street with Meningitis and was in hospital. We then began another three weeks of trauma waiting to see if she pulled through, which she did thankfully although she has given us a few worries since with her mountaineering exploits.

The leader of the theatre terrorists. Dudayav's nephew.

Sorry for the long post, but it was offered from a different veiwpoint and to try and get across that the problems in Chechnya affect everybody and not just one group.

Del

Del Boy It is nice to hear from some one with a bit of inside information.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/3634114.stm

According to this article it was the armed civilians that started the chain reaction of events, 10 SF Russians died in the assault.

Whoever was suppose to be in over all command on the ground has got to take responsibility for not keeping those civilians away.

Just found these two images while doing some background reading. (hope this works)

Grozny (Capital City of Chechnya) December 16, 1999

Grozny, March 16, 2000 (supposedly after carpet bombings from the russian air force)

heh, the first picture has deeper shadows (probably taken late afternoon). The second looks like it was taken close to mid day (1pm?).

Don't be fooled.

Well spotted there!
I'm going to email the site I found them on right now, asking for further explanation.

The Rebels came to kill children, both parties fate were sealed when the terrorist set foot in the school.

Oh BTW, is there any way we could change the name from "terrorist" to F'in @ssholes please?

As in; the BBC reports another "F'in @sshole" blew him self up today in his Soho flat while mixing nitrates...

sneaky beaky wrote: We are lucky, we don't have Muslim Republics on our doorstep, as Russia does. And Chechnya is trying to become a Muslim Republic.
However - if we keep letting more and more Muslims into Britain, maybe they will be demanding one soon!!
If that sounds racist, then tough.!!
Sneaky.

I am not a rascist but I have to agree, how long will it be. My mates kids are ata school in Walsall. They are 2 of 30 white kids in a mainly asian/muslim school with a total of 350 pupils. Local Muslim leaders are already lobbying to have more "appropriate" lessons taught. The intent to outbreed and overrun is clear.

i am the same as sneaky beaky on this one, if that sounds racist....tough.