Muscle Gain For Hard Gainers?

[ReadyEddie]

I'm 12.7 stone at 6 foot and I'm happy with that. I would like to keep improving my strength but I don't think that means I have to put on any weight. IF I did want to put on muscle I would simply start doing heavy weights to failure (4-6 reps), compound movemets, no high intensity cardio and eat loads. I read that during muscle gain you should be cosuming 1.5 grams of protien per 2 pounds of your overall weight. That's a lot more than most people normally have. For me that would be 130 grams of protein per day!!

[ADDiction]

You think 130g is a lot?

[Spence]

When people say that its hard to both gain muscle and lose fat, they are basing that on the idea that you need a positive energy balance to gain weight, but a negative energy balance to love weight. Obviously you cant have both a positive and negetive energy balance at the same time.

However, as an absolute beginner, you are very fortunate that you can lose fat and gain muscle at the same time (for a short period of time). These are sometimes known as newbie gains.

I'm sure your Personal Trainer didn't tell you not to monitor what you eat, or at least I really hope they didn't......

But also could you clear up what you put in your post at the end, it didn't quite make sense. You checked that you were 12 stone @ 16%BF today? Yet somehow managed to go down to 10%?[/b]

[Spence]

What you are asking is very, very difficult to plan for the very reasons that I posted before. You are better off focusing now on gaining weight so that when you cut; a) you won't go below a healthy weight, and b) the muscle you gain when you bulk now will be on show when you strip away that fat. Remember it's the muscle that gives you that ripped and defined look. If you try cutting with very litte muscle, you just become skinny, and look more like Paris Hilton.

As for not watching what you eat, well thats just plain rediculous. Figure out what your goal is, and suit your actions so that you can acheive the desired outcome, that includes training, lifestyle and nutrition. I am both suprised and diappointed that a qualified PT has told you not to bother.

[ReadyEddie]

You think 130g is a lot?

I think for most that would be an increase on their normal amounts. I also know that there's other's that do 1 gram per pound of bodyweight. There seems to be a lot of differing opinions on how much you really need.

[SamForrest]

Ive only just skimmed through this thread.But comming from someone who used to lift weights a lot i know about gaining and losing weight,and good quality weight at that,not just fat.

At the end of the day mate,you dont want to gain excess fat just for the sake of it.It will not aid you to much.You need some on you,but going into training with a gut is just more for you to carry around.What will be better is trying to gain muscle. The only way to do that is to up your protien and carb levels. Now,even if your not going down the gym lifting tones of weights,you still need to be getting in loads of carbs (before and after workouts as a basic principle- Oats are one of the best things) and also protien after your workout and before bed. Dont listen to the people that say eating to much protien will kill you or anything,its all tosh.

You want to be aiming for around 1.5/2g of protien per KG of bodymass if you want to gain some good muscle. So for example,i used to be 100KG when i was into my weights,so i had between 150-200g of protien a day.Now im 80 KG so obviously im on a lot less. You have to start taking excessive protien ,around 2.5/3g per KG and at around over 50g per meal to be excreting it as waste rather than putting it to use.

Diet is a key point a lot of people dont think about.If you want your muscles to recovery from the previous workout and therefore get bigger as time goes on you need protien to rebuild them ,and carbs for upping the energy and cals.

You dont need to go crazy about it,just buy some simple whey protien,nothing fancy (w w w. myprotien. co. uk are Very good for cheap/good quality) ,have a couple of shakes on a workout day,and try to eat more protien based food,as whole food is the best thing.

Also,if your not gaining weight even if your eating like a horse,then your not eating enough.I dont care what people say about metabolism,thats all well and good,but people seem to be forgetting what type of training is being done here,High intensity circuits,running etc. Pretty much the top of the list in terms of a) using calories,and b) using muscles as fuel.

So even though you may think your eating loads,bear in mind,a long distance run (an hour for eg) at a fast/steady pace can burn upwards of 1000cals.

A lot of things bodybuilders do is workout the exact amounts of what their eating and burning off, thats why guys can drop weight for a comp without doing cardio,just knowing that at each meal your eating xxx amounts of cals,and every session in the gym each day will burn off xxx.

But as most people have said,i wouldnt worry too much about putting weight on mate. Im trying to cut my weight.Im currently 80 KG,used to be 100 KG and even at 80 ive got a fair bit of mass on me,which,although means im strong,it does nothing to aid me endurance wise. You never see any really big guys at the end of the 32 weeks.


Id suggest,keep up with your current training. Pop down a gym twice a week.And keep things simple. If your running lots then your leg muscles will be fine for what is needed,id say upper body strength is the main thing,so do 1 day on Push and one on Pull. Push you want to be doing Chest/Tris ,Pull is Back/Bis. Dont be in the gym for any longer than 30 mins and have some protien shakes and suitable food around the workout.You dont want to be workout out to much as it will inhibit the main training,running,cardio etc.


Good luck whatever you do

[ADDiction]

There may well be different opinions on the matter but you seemed startled by a 130g intake, you would be suprised how easy it is to take in that amount.

SamForrest, I don't know where you got your facts regarding calories burnt during long distance, way over estimated.

[SamForrest]

Depends what you do and at what speed,but running at around a 10 minute mile pace,for 60 minutes,can on the average size male burn around 650 calories.So if you add a few sprints into the mix and warm up period etc then a long session can burn a hell of a lot.

[Brian-]

Here's a pretty good site if you're into counting calories:

http://www.primusweb.com/fitnesspartner ... lculat.htm