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druadan wrote:(btw Sarastro, I've never held an SA80 weighing 5kg, 5 lbs maybe!)

Really? Specs on the Army website have SA80 + 30 round magazine at 4.98 kg, was what I was using when looking up weights to carry for tabbing. Could be a misprint, and know you spend more time with the thing than I do, but 5 kg really not that much, are you sure?

A loaded 30 round mag weighs a fair bit and you don't yomp with a mag fitted (well, not fitness test yomping anyhow). Now I'll wind me neck in if you prove me wrong, but I was under the impression that an unloaded rifle was around the 7lb mark and loaded 11lb. 5kg is over 10lb is a seventh of your average field kit - that's quite a lot.

If I was a wannerbie I would take in everything that Druadan says people. He don't read about it, he does it because he's a serving Royal Marines Commando who at this time is out at the pointed end in the Gan.

Books and Info on Websites are fine but if you want a real heads up on stuff then Druadan and his like are who you should listen to, because they are doing now!

Artist

Artist, I was taking in what he said, why I asked if it could be a misprint.

Druadan - thought it could be with/without the magazine, 7lb / 11lb difference would sound about right, and like I said sure you know better than me.

Useful to know the test tabs are without magazine so weight is different, I can see 5kg makes a fair difference when it's added to the 30kg you are already carrying.

Sarastro wrote:Artist, I was taking in what he said

Nay Hassle Sarastro.

During a Yomp you go at the speed of the slowest bod (within reason), as the bod may be carting an 81 mm MortarTube or Mortar Base Plate, plus rounds for the Mortar and all his personal kit. Whilst you may just have a bergan, Fighting Order and personal weapon with a couple of rounds of 81mm for when you get to your final RV. Sigs normally dips out as well due to all the extra stuff that a Signaller may be carting. Extra Batts for the radio, the radio, a field telephone plus tele cable. D10 was the stuff when I was in, black wire on a gurt big drum, covered in Black Maskers.

During training you did and I presume still do a 12 mile yomp (load carry) carrying all the gear a Troop would need in the real world, GPMG's, Anti tank Weapon, radios and radio stuff, 51mm mortar, rounds for the mortar etc, etc, and you have three hours to hack it. So as you can work out the speed is 4 MPH carrying all the kit a Troop for real carries. And this is not on the flat either!

Oh the joy of Yomping up a 1 in 3 hill at three in the morning in the middle of God knows where, pissed wet though, with the thought that you've got at least another ten similar Hill's/Mountains ahead of you!

When your running a speedmarch you run with 35lb of weight (fighting order) plus your Rifle and your boots n rig. The requirement is to be able to run and quick march at the speed of ten minutes per mile so an ideal time to do a 3 mile speed march is 30 minutes, 60 minutes for 6 miles, 90 minutes for 9 miles. You get no prizes for being able to do it in half the time as the main aim is to be able to get a group of Blokes from point A to point B ready and able to then attack the enemy if they need to.

As to getting pains in your shoulders like pins n needles..........Well yes your going to get them even if your gear fits like a glove because of the weight your lugging. It's all to do with being a Royal Marine really! On the final leg back to CTCRM when we were speedmarching or Yomping back from Woodbury Common because there was no transport available some WAG had stuck up a sign saying "It's Only Pain" Whenever I saw that sign I knew I only had a few hundred more yards to go so it was a welcome sight to me anyway (don't know about the other bods reactions to the sign). It was there when I was in training, when I was doing my JCC but alas gone when I did my SCC.

Artist

Was round oakhampton last year saw a sign similar to that somewhere
round there. The cft is 25kg 8miles 1hour 55 normally bergan and rifle
but can be done with just bergan . The ta cft is 4 miles 25kg slightly less
for non infantry types.Though its going up to 6 and then8miles

i think that sign is still there Artist. i can remember seeing one that sounds just like that (with a cartoon of a RM PTI on it) on the final stretch of the 3 miler on PRMC, on a big oak tree. made me chuckle...in between sucking down the air like a lunatic lol

p.s

cheers for the feedback sarasto and druadan

joe

Heyup Artist, guardian angel day?

At this moment in time I'm actually enjoying a well deserved shagging and boozing session back in the UK, crab air got me back two days late but I'll cram it all in to twelve instead of fourteen! Back out there next week...

12 miler still done, times still same, the only things we never carried in training were the LAWs (anti tank missiles) you mentioned above, don't know why. Always seemed strange the 'criteria' yomps are done with 70lbs, which was basically just the weight of your field kit, but as soon as you're actually on exercise you're adding radios, weapons and ammo all on top of that...good fun that

druadan wrote:Heyup Artist, guardian angel day?

At this moment in time I'm actually enjoying a well deserved shagging and boozing session back in the UK, crab air got me back two days late but I'll cram it all in to twelve instead of fourteen! Back out there next week...

12 miler still done, times still same, the only things we never carried in training were the LAWs (anti tank missiles) you mentioned above, don't know why. Always seemed strange the 'criteria' yomps are done with 70lbs, which was basically just the weight of your field kit, but as soon as you're actually on exercise you're adding radios, weapons and ammo all on top of that...good fun that

Typical Bootneck! You Fecking Pervert!!!

Artist

Last i saw the sign was still there, just towards the end of heartbreak lane. It was that said RM PTI with the words '200 yards to go, its only pain' or very close to that anyway. I found him funny the first few times, but when speed marches kicked in he appeared a little more blurry and a little less funny, and two hundred yards felt like 200 miles.

Anyhow, i,ll hopefully be down there again soon, so i,ll be seeing shortly.

As for yomping and pins and needles, thats just part of it, i always's get it really bad in my feet after about 4 miles or so usually. Not alot can be done i dont think apart form forgetting about it.

I have only ever heard the SA 80 to weigh 11lbs, UGL attached maybe sarastro???

dwarfy

Doesn't seem to be dwarfy, have different weight for UGL. Must be extra weight of loaded mag and optical sight. Either way, the fact it is carried w/o mag on tests as druadan explained is all I wanted to know

Artist, thanks for the detailed rundown, was very helpful. Want to get as much info on tabbing as I can, as a) since it looks like I'll be doing TA basic before I get a shot at regs, I won't have a PTI over my shoulder telling me where I'm going wrong, and b) so far I seem to be naturally pretty good at it, and find it enjoyable enough, so want to try and excel at this to make up for deficiencies elsewhere.

Also I understand it's a vital area to be good at for anyone even remotely interested in qualifying recce at some point down the road?

Sadly, yomping is a prerequisite of many of the more 'gucci' specialisations, be it recce, HW, or even SF. However (and this is just hearsay), I think Perce do it with less weight and faster times as a general rule than Bootnecks - tabbing versus yomping. Like I say, just hearsay, CFT etc are all the same.

Infantry unit, you'll still have the SUSAT rather than an iron sight (except maybe in the early part of your training), which is probably worth an extra lb - not much, but strangely noticable when you're carrying the weapon.

Druadan,

apologies if it wasnt you, but did you mention something a while back about a Bergen better suited to the vertically chalenged amongst us that you could get issued at CTC? One that is the same size, takes all the kit the same, but is differently shaped or something?

dwarfy

Erm, don't know if I mentioned it, but yes you can get both long back and short back versions of the '95 pattern Bergan, both have the same carrying capacity. If it's for civvy use you're better off going to a good quality name like Berghaus, who make excellent kit compatible with military issue add ons (side pouches etc) in four or five different back lengths, so you'll find the right one for you.

SA80A2, or to give it it's proper name l85a2 wieghs 5.5lbs without SUSAT and being bombed up.