15 British naval personnel have been seized by Iranian navy

[got1]

Beat me to it Harry.
Another conspiracytheorist.

[harry hackedoff]

These eejits forget there are real people out there.
How`s you, btw, Gotters? All good I hope

[got1]

Not bad H, have had to switch to the black stuff because the old lager has apparently got more sugar. (diabetic No2 ) Well thats my excuse

[Guardian of The Wall]

Thanks for that positive input.
I`m sure it is a comfort to the families involved.
We`re talking about grown-up stuff here you twonk.

It wasn't meant to be cruel and I'm certainly not one of those conspiracy idiots. You never know what trouble is being caused in the world, that's all I meant.

Blair said today:
"We have been clearly stating that we are utterly certain that the personnel were in Iraqi waters.

"We so far have not made explicit why we know that, because we don't want to escalate this."

Which makes me wonder...do they have someone out there working for them undercover?

Don't judge people before they can explain themselves.

[SO19]

For a start, the vessel the boarding party were inspecting is still anchored in the exact same location it was left at, and, suprise suprise, that just happens to be inside Iraqi territorial waters.

The Iranian's are playing games, simple as that.

[harry hackedoff]

Gotters, by "the black stuff" I take it you mean "Nigerian Lager"
Guardian of the walts, gps kit either handheld or fitted in the RIBs will show exactly where the lads were.
Problem is Iran has one view of it`s territorial waters and the rest of the world has a different view.
Why Cornwall never gave it "Hard a starboard" and let rip with it`s Vulcan and victualled the first two Iranian Pirate vessels is beyond me. The lads won`t be enjoying tea and stickies, that`s for sure.

[got1]

H, yes to nigerian lager. Had the test today, no change.
We have a saying up her, " whits fur yae will no go past yae, so I went and had a few today after the test
About Corwall I completly agree, I can't see the lads having much confidence in their support.
Give them a broadside (if it could).
The old adage is there again. "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Hope their all right.

[harry hackedoff]

Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6

As said elsewhere.

Arab telly saying the Jenny may be released today/tommoz.
Iranians are asking for Bliar to cover Margaret Becket with a burkha first

Seems the ROE were not to open fire unless fired upon, which is fine if you`re a Frigate but not much use in a RIB.
Elmer`s int picture has included likelyhood of kidnappings are greatly increased after they started snatching Iranian military inside Iraq. Perhaps the Iranians may be going into the prisoner exchange game.
My thoughts are with the Matelots and Bootys.

[harry hackedoff]

Al Jaz just showed pictures of captured Bootys and Matelots troughing away and further vid of Jenny wearing a headscarve with a letter wot she wrote Some reports say she has already been released. Not confirmed.
The lads were eating as though they were bloody hungry.
Hope they get out this week

[HCR]

Seems the ROE were not to open fire unless fired upon

No way Im not having that. If that was the case British Troops would be taken prisoner everyday, as long as the insurgents dont open fire all the Brits could do is drop there weapons and raise there hands and do as there told. UNLESS, UNLESS they were IN Iranian waters and opening fire would of started WWIII. But I dought that.

ROE are not set in stone, there a guideline and open to interpretation by who is ever there at the time whether your a young Trooper or an old sweat. If you believe your life or safety is in danger then you do what ever you need to do to get out of that situation. If that means opening up before they do then so be it.

BY THE WAY Im not having a go at the Lads and Girl involved they did what was right at the time. I just cant believe the ROE would allow this to happen everytime. Im off there again for the 3rd time very soon and its not correct to suggest we have both hands tied behind our backs. The ROE are pretty rebus

Al Jaz just showed pictures of captured Bootys and Matelots troughing away and further vid of Jenny wearing a headscarve with a letter wot she wrote

I thought she did alright. She said what they asked her to but did it in a way so anyone back home would know she didnt really mean what she was saying but was saying it under duress. Thats what your taught to do.

I watched it with my Mother. She said "I didnt think they could smoke in those Countries"

[harry hackedoff]

You make some fair points there HCR.
Individual ROE are flexi, your own self defence being paramount.

I was referring to Cornwall`s ROE. She has the capacity to both detect and destroy most surface threats, so why didn`t she?

Why Cornwall never gave it "Hard a starboard" and let rip with it`s Vulcan and victualled the first two Iranian Pirate vessels is beyond me.

[HCR]

Thanks Harry

So why do you think it didnt Harry. Do you think just maybe they were a bit too close to the Iranian side. I suppose its easy for us to sit and judge hey.

[harry hackedoff]

Talking to someone who does know, on Tuesday and it seems the kidnapping took place as the blokes were still on board the merchant vessel.
Iranian high speed craft often run along the border and even "buzz" the search teams. A quick turn to the sou west and they were at the search ship before Cornwall reacted. Once the Iranians were aboard there wasn`t much the lads themselves could do faced with overwhelming numbers. Why she didn`t use her incredible offensive firepower or call on the air assets on CAP, to dissuade the Iranians from
going anywhere near Iran is what`s puzzling us.
The big fear for surface units it the high speed attack by suicide bombers. Ask Elmer.
That stops Cornwall and other TF 158 assets from standing on the border.
Cornwall`s Capt, should`ve said poke yer ROE, and gone all out to stop the Iranians.
I bet he wished he had now.
I`m certain the blokes do.

[Pilgrim Norway]

I imagine that 'Signing for the Cornwall' is a very heavy burden today ......

AND - I should think that the 15 are most concerned at any rescue attempt - with cover from Elmer etc.....

Bleeding politics

[Frank S.]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070403/ap_ ... dQCKoUewgF

Hopes rise that Britons will be freed
By NASSER KARIMI and ROBERT H. REID, Associated Press Writers
41 minutes ago



The sudden release of an Iranian diplomat missing for two months in Iraq raised new hope Tuesday that 15 British sailors and marines seized by Iran may soon be freed. It also suggests the standoff over the captive Britons may end with a de facto prisoner swap — something both Tehran and London have publicly discounted.

Diplomat Jalal Sharafi arrived in Tehran on Tuesday, hours after he was freed by his captors in Iraq, officials said. He was seized Feb. 4 by uniformed gunmen in Karradah, a Shiite-controlled district of Baghdad.

Iran alleged the diplomat had been abducted by an Iraqi military unit commanded by U.S. forces — a charge repeated by several Iraqi Shiite lawmakers. U.S. authorities denied any role in his disappearance.

In Baghdad, an Iraqi Foreign Ministry official said the Iraqi government had exerted pressure on those holding Sharafi to release him — but he would not identify who had held Sharafi.

But another senior government official said Iraqi intelligence had been holding him. Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not supposed to release the information.

Sharafi was a second secretary at the Iranian Embassy involved in plans to open a branch of the Iranian national bank. U.S. officials allege that Iran provides money and weapons to Iraqi Shiite militias.

Sharafi was abducted a month after the U.S. military arrested five other Iranians in northern Iraq. The U.S. described one of those captives as a senior officer of the Quds Force, an elite unit of Iran's Revolutionary Guards.

The Iraqi Foreign Ministry official said his government also was working "intensively" for the release of the five other Iranians to "help in the release of the British sailors and marines."

Neither Iran nor Iraq nor Britain has said explicitly that a prisoner swap was in the works. Iran has denied it seized the Britons to force the release of Iranians held in Iraq, and Britain has steadfastly insisted it would not negotiate for the sailors' freedom.

In Washington, President Bush signaled the same. "I also strongly support the prime minister's declaration that there should be no quid pro quos when it comes to the hostages," Bush said.

It was unclear whether the Iraqis had won Sharafi's freedom on their own initiative to encourage a settlement, which would ease tension without endangering their own claim to the waters where it occurred.

Nevertheless, the release of Sharafi and efforts to free the five other Iranians suggested that the parameters of a deal might be taking shape.

Iran maintains the British sailors had encroached on Iranian territory when they were seized by naval units of the Revolutionary Guards on March 23. Britain insists its sailors and marines were in Iraqi waters and has demanded their unconditional release.

British Prime Minister Tony Blair told reporters in Scotland that the next two days would be "fairly critical" to resolving the standoff over the navy crew, although he gave no details what he meant.

Iran's official Islamic Republic News Agency quoted First Vice President Parviz Davoodi as saying that "Britain should accept that it has invaded Iranian waters and guarantee that it will not be repeated."

"The violation was clear and obvious and all evidences and documents were suggesting occurrence of the violation," Davoodi added. "Britain has recently changed its approach and shifted toward legal and diplomatic negotiations."

However, British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett urged caution in expectations of a swift resolution, saying that "diplomatic efforts will continue." She also said Britain still has not been granted consular access to the captives.

With the standoff at a sensitive stage, Britain reacted with caution to the release Tuesday of new pictures of the British captives on the Web site of Iran's Fars News Agency. The images showed six sailors sitting on a carpet in a room, wearing blue, black and red tracksuits. Two sailors were shown playing chess.

The caption said: "British sailors are chatting and eating fruit, drinking coffee and playing chess. It seems that the sailors are satisfied with their situation, in which they are enjoying good conditions instead of working in a hard situation in the Persian Gulf."

Faye Turney, the only woman among the captured, was shown without a head scarf. She had worn one in initial images released of the Royal Navy crew.

Britain has expressed outrage over the airing of earlier videos in which Turney and others "confessed" to violating Iranian territorial waters. The British also froze most diplomatic contacts with Iran and urged their European and Asian allies to step up pressure on Tehran to free the captives.

The latest pictures did not show any further confessions. And as tensions have escalated, the Iranians have appeared to back off somewhat.

On Monday, an Iranian state-run television station said all 15 Britons had confessed to illegally entering Iranian waters. But state-run radio said the confessions would not be broadcast because of what it called "positive changes" in Britain's negotiating stance.

Chief Iranian negotiator Ali Larijani told Britain's Channel 4 news on Monday that Iranian officials "definitely believe that this issue can be resolved and there is no need for any trial."

Blair told Scotland's Real Radio that if Iran wants to resolve the standoff with diplomacy, "the door is open."

Britain has two options, Blair said.

"One is to try settle this by way of peaceful and calm negotiation to get our people back as quickly as possible," he said. "The other is to make it clear that if that is not possible, that we have to take an increasingly tougher position."