U.S. Democratic Canidate?

[Tony D]

Forgive the ignorance on american politics on my part,

But in recent times has there been an american president who isn't a highly succesful buisnessman or a millionaire?

Thanks,

[Wholley]

Tony,
In answer to your question,
Billionaire would be closer.Millionaires only make the Senate.
If they are lucky and well connected.
Politics,Same Sh*t,Different Candidate.
I couldn't give a running F*ck at a rolling dohnut for any of them.
Am I starting to sound jaded?
The Wholley for president campaign will begin around,errm...2007.
I'll be running on all the usual crap,lower taxes,higher taxes for the rich,Healthcare for everyone,including Illegal aliens and their offspring,
I will support NAFTA or not,depending on how many Illegals can get drivers licenses before State Laws prohibit them unless they REALLY do have Legal Status.
Oh!I'll just be a regular politician then
You can bet I'll declare war on someone as soon as I'm elected.
Off to me grot.
Wholley.

[Whitey]

Tony D,
The answer is no. Wholley isn't kidding, a millionare dope dealer would have a better chance at getting elected to office than a law abiding citizen with good intentions and modest, honest campaign funds. The problem is much larger though than just politicians. In America we can survive corrupt politicians, idiots on average in the citizenery and even the
illegals, what is our achilles heel is the judicial system. If you want to bring America down to statism and ruin, corrupt the judicial system. This is already happening and is why we are in such turmoil. Polarization to this magnitude hasn't been seen since the War of Northern Aggression.

[Frank S.]

Plenty of books on that subject...

[Sisyphus]

Polarization to this magnitude hasn't been seen since the War of Northern Aggression.

Good Grief, been away for 4 weeks and nothing changes.

You lost whitey - get over it. The Germans and Japanese did and look what happened to them. In fact you could argue that they won the peace.

whitey, if you try jumping up and down a bit you might find the needle that's stuck jumps onto the next groove on the record and we might hear something new.

If not, any chance you can autoedit out any references to the WNA and give the rest of us a break?

[Whitey]

You are so right, I am a horrible person because I refuse to repent. I figure it is like this, we have issues in America with just about everyone, and to understand those issues you have to ask why and back track history. When you do this in any depth, you start to realize things aren't exactly the way they are because of the state approved version forced on kids in the public schools. Once these self evident truths are discovered and if you are a real American and honest you cannot help but rebuke the garbage built upon this illegal foundation. I wish I could become ignorant again, satisfied with bullshit Hollywood movies, hip hop music and fast food united by endless consumption and reality TV. Sometimes I wish I never researched my family history, never found the ledgers and letter complete with war records. The Constitution is under serious attack, therefore America is under attack. OBL blew up some buildings that can be rebuilt, our government on the otherhand is rewritting and ammending the constitution in such a way that it soon appears it will only be a sad shadow of its former self and along with it goes We the people.
Remeber 9/11, well who remembers the burning and murder of the civilians of Richmond? Vicksburg or the Unons ethnic cleansing of the plains indians just two months after the war? 9/11 is a side show a distraction, a reason to usurp, control and restructure not in the sake of freedom, but for the lust of power, control and hegemony(at any price).
To understand America today you can't start by looking at CNN, or WW2, you must go back to 1865 and compare that with 1789.
Sorry Sisyphus but I cannot and won't consent to these crimes for the freedom to buy "Stuff".
We are losing our freedom Sisyphus, and as long as the shelves at the stores are full and offer value, convenience and affordable prices, no one seems to care. I know what it is to be free, to live a full and meaninful life, but in these times that opprotunity and right seems all but gone. Everyone now is a ward of the state with a mission to work themselves to death and when not working to buy lots of "Stuff" and to never question or challenge the limitless auuthority of the state.
Sure my people lost, and what they predicted happened, we lost our freedom to the investors, corporations and our country. For a long time you could easily carve out a small place and distance yourself from the insanity, now days unless you are Wholley, good luck. This insanity is forced on everyone equally.
My question to you is the question Bobby Lee asked often, "Why can't these people leave us alone?"
I was born free and I will die free, buying stuff, high credit limits and low interest loans don't do it for me when my freedom of speech, right to bear arms, along with the 5th, 6th, 9th and 10th ammendment are denied to me and my people.

[Sisyphus]

You are so right, I am a horrible person

We are losing our freedom Sisyphus, and as long as the shelves at the stores are full and offer value, convenience and affordable prices, no one seems to care.

whitey,

Don't be so hard on yourself. There are plenty of people who'll try and put you down without you giving them ammunition.

On your second point, I fully agree with you.

The problem is: what to do about it? The French Revolution provided the only answer to their problems [in it's early stages]. So all I'm asking is that if you're not prepared to take up arms and fight [or do some other practical thing to redress the balance] can't you leave the subject alone here? Persistently moaning about something on a Forum like this does nothing except become incredibly boring.

[Whitey]

Okay Sisyphus,
I'm going to the store to do my patriotic duty and buy some "Stuff" I'll even charge it on a low interest high credit limit card. In WW2 we were encouraged to buy war bonds to help out the country, today we buy bubble gum and soda by the case to support the war effort, not to mention prescription drugs. Now that is freedom worth fighting for.

[Whitey]

For real Sisyphus there is a large call and actual migration of like minds migrating to different states right now. New Hampshire, Mississippi and Vermont actually to name a few with the idea of taking political control and to leave the micro management.
You don't have to take up arms to be free if "Demonocracy" I mean "Democracy works right? Sisyphus you need to join the League of the South. Inside every liberal is a rebel waiting to get out. Can't be a communist and have your volvo too.

get over it. The Germans and Japanese did and look what happened to them. In fact you could argue that they won the peace

BTW yeah look at the Gerrys, Cars and porno, the Japs cars and Japanimation, yeah thats what I'd like my country to turn into. Nothin is over, just at half time. Confederates 7 Union 8.

[Wholley]

Where you been then Sisyphus?
Welcome back bud.
Glad to see you and Whitey are at it again,
makes me feel at home again,wouldn't miss your posts for the world.
AAAAHH,Debate,discusion,sensible arguement,
Oh sorry,wrong thread.
Wholley.

[Whitey]

Sisyphus,
I get the picture why you are a left leaning kind of guy. Where you live and vistit populations are dense and socialist style democracy works in those areas better than absolute democracy(I hate that word really).
In America and in the South particularly we have wide open space in much of the country where our Constitution makes good sense, however in D.C. where populations soar and men build row upon row quasi socialism works better for them, problem is D.C. doesn't leave the rest of the country be, they force their "Equality" and will upon us all. This sparks the logical question "Why come?" and they refuse to answer. I do believe in States Rights, and the 1st 10 Ammendments, and will die defending them if need be, rather than live under a regime that ignores them.
It may not make sense to you, but I'd rather fall where I stand for my beliefs and freedom than disgrace my family and cower in exchange for a handout.
These candidates are all jokers bent on nothing more than getting elected, and when elected their supporters expect and demand their 4 years of looting the treasury. Sad isn't it?
"Planet Earth is blue, and there is nothing I can do."
So I'll agree with you, communism works good for you. Good for big cities, but not for us with wide open space.
I got rebel blood brother, can't help it.

[Jon]

My theory:

America chooses a rightwing conservative - we have a US-led war
America chooses a leftwing liberal - we have a US-involved war
America chooses a born again Christian - we have chaos

You should have chosen the porn star for governer of California!

[Sisyphus]

wholley

Nice to hear from you, too! Been to our pad in Spain

whitey, had a look at the League of the South. Interesting website. I wish I could find one which gives a balanced view of the issues on both sides.

Not sure communism is working for us; the Communist Party is just about extinct in the UK and most of Europe [I'm using the normal definition here, not 'whitey's own version']

Anyway, you'll be glad to hear I'm moving on from the American Civil War [sorry, War of Northern Aggression ] As we spend a lot of time in Spain I thought I'd better make myself a bit more 'informed' about the country's history. So I'm now reading up on the Spanish Civil War - fascinating stuff.

Mind you, the more I read about other countries' histories the more I agree with the view that:

'To be born an Englishman is to have won first prize in the Lottery of Life'

[Can't remember who said it. Noel Coward, Somerset-Maugham or somesuch? ]

[Frank S.]

http://www.sobran.com/columns/index.shtml

January 15, 2004
Secretary of State Colin Powell now admits, or acknowledges, or however you want to put it, that he hasn’t seen a “smoking gun” proving that Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction or terrorist connections, though he says it was nonetheless “prudent” to suppose so “at the time.”

The Carnegie Endowment for International Peace has concluded that the Bush administration misrepresented the “threat” from Saddam Hussein.

Paul O’Neill, President Bush’s former secretary of the Treasury, says Bush was determined to depose Saddam Hussein as soon as he took office, long before the 9/11 attacks, and that he himself “never saw anything that I would characterize as evidence of weapons of mass destruction.” His new quasi memoir isn’t flattering to Bush’s judgment in general.

Before, during, and after the Iraq war, Bush assured us that those weapons would soon be found. Nearly a year after the war began, they haven’t been found.

Are you starting to see a pattern?

I never believed Bush, said so, and all last year found myself accused of hating him and even of hating America. I don’t really find Bush hateful. I do get annoyed at being ruled by him, but it’s not a matter of personal animosity; I merely think we all ought to be outraged at being ruled by a series of mediocre men who have far more power than any man should ever have. They usually lie, too. It comes with the territory.

Does any honest man really want that kind of power over millions of other people? Yes, it can happen, I suppose. I think Jimmy Carter was a fairly honest man, as men go. But once he has that kind of power, can he keep it if he stays honest? I doubt it.

Every president finds himself hated with startling intensity. As a political ruler he commands a vast system of coercion, which means he is bound to make countless enemies. Nobody seems to realize that this is inevitable; but to many citizens the incumbent president always appears as a monster, just because, in the nature of things, he has more power than any man should be trusted with, and far more than the U.S. Constitution authorizes.

When Bush was a private citizen, nobody thought he was either unusually good or unusually wicked. Only when he got into politics, as governor of Texas, did people start talking about him very severely. And even when he ran for president, nobody made extravagant claims for him.

His amazingly thin victory in the 2000 race made him seem diabolical to many Democrats, who accused him of stealing the election. But before 9/11, nobody mistook him for a great man. It was only when he suddenly became a “war president” that many Americans, mostly Republicans, discovered that he stood in the tradition of supposedly great leaders like Franklin Roosevelt and Winston Churchill. His speeches calling for “war on terror” against the “axis of evil” were acclaimed for restoring “moral clarity” to the presidency, in inspiring contrast to Bill Clinton and even his own father. Never mind that those speeches were the work of, well, his speechwriters.

In the eyes of the Democrats, all this only made Bush more evil himself. Both parties still agree that the U.S. Government and American power are excellent things, and that everything depends on having a great man in the presidency, but they differ sharply on whether Bush is that man. The Democrats are united in the conviction that he isn’t and that a Democrat must replace him next year; they differ among themselves only on which of their current candidates is “electable.” But as soon as one of them locks up the nomination, they will all agree that he is the obviously Anointed One.

Even if that candidate is Howard Dean, the Democrats will forget and forgive what they are now calling his “gaffes.” Of course if he loses the November election in a landslide, they will blame him for their party’s defeat and for ensuring Bush’s second term.

Should such a landslide occur, the Republicans will hail it as further proof of Bush’s greatness. If their dominance of Congress is increased, they will continue to blame deficits, fiscal crises, high taxes, and difficulties in the occupation of Iraq on the Democrats.

And anyone who keeps muttering about the U.S. Constitution will still be dismissed as an unpatriotic Bush-hating extremist.

[Whitey]

Sisypus,
Spain huh? Lincoln Brigade has some history there. Communism, socialism is all the same to me. Why another man feels the need to control others is something I'll never understand.
LOS could be quite one sided, the side of the Constitution and the right side. Dems Reps are all trying to usurp it, eventually people will wake up, and I pray that these scallywags take a close look at themselves and their actions, if the people ever figure the scam out and if things continue they will, we could see the US balkanize. When they usurped the Coonstitution they self selected.