Simona Toretta and Simona Pari

[Guest]

This statement was released a little earlier today by the Italian Government regarding the two female Italian aid workers who were taken hostage in Iraq two weeks ago.

"The government judges unreliable the messages on the killing of two girls confined in Iraq."

It communicated this in response to the request for urgent clarification of the situation made by Ds Luciano Violante after the news of the second message posted on the internet.(12:00pm today - local Italian Time - reported in La Repubblica.)

However, at 12:09pm today, it reported that :

There has been a new claim on Internet of the assassination of Simona Pari and Simona Toretta. In the communiqué spread from a little known internet site it is forecast that soon the video that shows the killing of two Italian volunteers will be published : "The video of the decapitation of two hostages will be soon sent in wave".

At 12:11pm today another statement was made by the Italian Government :

According to the Italian government, at the moment, there is not not any verification to the announcement of the killing of two Italian volunteers. The government, therefore, invites the greatest caution, prudence and responsibility.

Due to my connections with a group which supports former hostages and prisoners of war, I have also spoken with the Italian Embassy this morning regarding the fate of the two women and they confirm that the provenance of the messages which have appeared on the internet would appear to be unreliable. They are, however, still investigating the situation. I will be speaking to them during the day and will post any definite information as I receive it. Reports are coming out every 5 minutes at the moment and many are contradictory.

Let us hope that the postings on the internet from the group concerned, are untrue.

(Translations from La Repubblica are mine and I apolgise that they're not fantastic translations.)

[9901637]

I hope for their sake that these postings on the net are just an extremely bad taste hoax!

Mya they return home safely and soon.

regards

9901637

[Guest]

A leader of the Ulema Sunnites has just made this statement :

Simona Toretta and Simona Pari are, in all likelihood, still alive. It seems that they are in the hands of a band that has nothing to that to do with any known terrorist organisation. I do not think that they were killed.

I have also just been telephoned by the Italian Consul who was able to confirm that the above statement is from a genuine source. He will be calling me back in about an hour to further clarify.

[Meekon]

Let's just pray that they are safe and well, and that they are able to return home very soon.

[Guest]

I have just spoken again with the Italian Consul who has confirmed to me that the reports currently circulating remain unproven. There is, as yet, still no evidence that these claims are genuine but, from the type of internet postings which have been made from this group, there is every indication that their postings are untrue.

This comment has also just been released and I think we should all bear this in mind :

The military policemen of the Ros give little credibility to the two claims via the web, that announced the killing of two Italian volunteers. More than this, they caution all commentators not to speculate, saying : "What is happening here is a kind of public fanaticism which may well push this group that has the two women in this direction, namely, to kill them."

More to follow as soon as it's verified .......

[martin1001]

Well, the last bit you wrote certainly shocked me, it never occured to me, that those holding the two poor girls may be pushed from a liberal stand to a more aggresive stance due to adverse media reporting and freak net postings.

These two girls are really in a very sad position and hopefully there will be a settlement to their plight soon.

[Guest]

I have also just received this :

The two French journalists Georges Malbrunot and Christian Chesnot, taken captive on 20 August, 2004 in Iraq together with their driver and Syrian interpreter Mohammed al Jundi, are about to to be freed: this has just been announced in a statement made by the so-called 'National Forces of Iraq', of whom practically nothing is known. It is not the first time that such a statement has been made regarding the release of the two French reporters. To verify this statement is hard, since no-one has ever heard of the 'National Forces of Iraq but there does seem to be some evidence that their statement is genuine and that these two chaps will be released.

The fate of the two Italian women remains unclear but all reports which are verifiable would indicate that they are still alive.

Having spent much of today in communication with both A.P. (Associated Press) and B.B.C. News24 on this issue, they have now agreed to 'modify' their news reporting regarding the two female Italian aid workers. Please always bear in mind that the families and friends of these people may be watching these broadcasts (wherever they live) and so it's imperative that the reporting be correct and the only correct current information is that a little known and little used Islamist website has carried a report that the women have been beheaded. All genuine investigations would currently appear to dispute this claim. Therefore it is irresponsible of any news organisation to imply any other scenario, at this point in time.

[harry hackedoff]

Five days ago we had reports of two Aussies being kidnapped. It made number two spot on all news reports. Number one was either tennis or cricket, obviously Comparisons with Spain were drawn as we have national elections shortly. All 78 Aussies known to Oz F.O. were accounted for but there are many others (particularly from W.A.) working in the security game who were not known. SAS Reg sent out a team plus some old Bill and the latest is that the whole thing has been a hoax, thankfully.
I cannot watch the orange clad figures any more, I cannot stand the twat from CNN giving vivid descriptions on the radio any more. The sheer terror faced by the three recent captives is beyond my comprehension. I have kept out of discussion on here because it is so upsetting.

[Tab]

What I fail to understand is that this has been going on now for months, so why do people continue to put them selfs at risk. If you need to be there then whats wrong in going about in fairly large groups with an armed escort, and live in large apartment blocks or compounds than can be guarded. To live in house in small groups of two to three miles away from help and assistance is asking for trouble.

[Guest]

As of 21:54 pm (U.K.T.) the latest information regarding Simona Toretta and Simona Pari is as follows :

No evidence of the existence of the video : The lead investigators in Baghdad have said that no evidence has emerged that confirms the hypothesis of a video of the execution of Simona Pari and Simona Toretta.

And at 22:33pm :

Undersecretary Baccini (Ministry of Foreign Affairs) : "we can neither confirm nor refute. We are not in a position to either to confirm or to refute the news of last hours"

(Courtesy of La Repubblica News Service.)

There is no update on the situation of the two French journalists, despite the earlier optimism.

I also hear that Ken Bigley's mother has been admitted into hospital tonight.

Keep them all in your thoughts.

[Guest]

whats wrong in going about in fairly large groups with an armed escort, and live in large apartment blocks or compounds than can be guarded. To live in house in small groups of two to three miles away from help and assistance is asking for trouble.

I take your point Tab with regard to some of the civilian workers in these situations. Aid workers however are in a very difficult position. In order for humanitarian work to actually fulfill its aims it's necessary for the organisations to present themselves as completely neutral and so the possibilities of them having armed guards (from either side of any conflict) would be difficult to say the least, particularly so when many of the aid workers come from countries which have been represented on one side of the conflict (as in the case of European and American aid workers in Iraq.) They could use their own guards or carry weapons themselves and this is something which has been discussed on many occasions between the various humanitarian agencies who carry out this type of work. The general feeling is that it would be counter-productive for them to go into a conflict zone as neutral people who only wish to offer help and assistance whilst carrying weapons. This would send out very mixed messages to the local population many of whom may've been traumatised by their experiences anyway. The Red Cross has today, again, refused the idea that their workers should carry weapons and they make the point that no matter how many weapons you carry, someone in the house opposite will have more. But if these type of abductions continue to occur then this situation may well have to change, which would be a great shame because it would undeniably lessen the help which such organisations can give as their prescence would be perceived differently.

[Tab]

Tessie I agree with much that you say, but as the terrorist are grabbing any one they can to put pressure on different governments, then small independant groups of people working in Iraq are in danger no matter how well meaning they are. I would thought over the last six months it should have been clear to a blind man that every worker no matter who they worked for was in danger. The civilian workers that are working for the government are being highly paid and they should take action to safe guard them selfs. People like the Red Cross should work in guarded compound and deal with work from there and trained Iraq workers should deal with the work out side the compound.

[Guest]

The latest statement regarding the two Italian hostages reads as follows :

09.54am today :

The Kuwaiti newspaper, Al-Rai Al-Amm, writes today, citing Iraqi sources which are "trusted and quite informed", that the two Italian women kidnapped in Iraq are alive and are well. The sources cited from the newspaper condemn "the two unknown groups, that do not have any connection with the Jihad in Iraq group, for spreading two fake communiqués announcing the death of the two kidnapped women and confirming that it’s completely untrue". The same sources state that "the objective of this kidnapping is that of sending off a clear message to Silvio Berlusconi’s Government which will make them understand that the Iraqi people are opposed to the Italian consignment of troops in the country and they are asking for the withdrawal of the troops, as they did with the Spanish Government.”

The newspaper confirms that the sources cited "cannot establish what the destiny of the two women will be but it’s certainly the case that a lack of reply from the Italian Government could well mean that their punishment would be disastrous.”

The Al-Rai Al-Amm newspaper is always one of the most informed newspapers in the region on the events of the Jihadic groups which operate in Iraq.

At 11:19am today this further statement was made :

The Italian ministry of Foreign Affairs has made it known that the Italian embassy in Kuwait is carrying out a series of assessments to verify the reliability of the news published today in a Kuwaiti newspaper stating that the two Simona's, Simona Pari and Simona Torretta, are alive and well.

I also wanted to add that the various reports circulating this morning regarding Ken Bigley would also appear to be untrue. The Foreign Office (U.K.) has made the following statement regarding these reports :

"We know the site which has published this statement but, after discussion, we would consider it not to be reliable. We therefore do not believe that the news should be taken too seriously."