More beheadings in Iraq

[Greg S]

I think your average Iraqi wants peace and freedom, but 90% probably feel occupied by America.......

Peace wont happen while America is in the country - America is staying put because it knows if it leaves, Iraq will become another Iran!

[Guest]

Let's also remember the two French journalists who went missing in Iraq a month ago and the two female Italian aid workers who went missing earlier this month.

French journalists Christian Chesnot, left, and Georges Malbrunot in a picture taken by their captors.


Simona Pari and Simona Paretta, both of whom worked for an aid organisation, one helping to restore water supplies, the other working in a school



No information regarding their fate has been forthcoming.

[martin1001]

I stand by what I have said!

The lure of fast, hard cash is too much for many to resist and I also am in need of money, as being unemployed at present doesn´t really make my situation a bed of roses.

I certainly do sympathise with the families, can´t see anything in my previous post which states that it is tough on their families, but I am sure, that the families were in the knowledge that Iraq is a dangerous country with outlaws willing to take the lives of aid workers, contractors and security personel. Jeez, they even take their own people hostage and slaughter them.

There was no insinuation from my side that military personnel was meant - purely those there for hard cash - or is there anyone here that would like to suggest, that what a serviceman earns is "hard cash"? - No? Thought not!

Like it or not; it is a well known fact that working in Iraq (in whatever capacity) is dangerous and could bring your life to a premature end.

If you are willing to take the risks, then so be it.

Perhaps you could explain to me why the government will not bow to any demands the kidnappers make? Perhaps because the majority of those working for firms that take contracts in Iraq make it pretty clear that the foreign office will do the minimum to help! And that´s all they do.

At the end of the day it is a risk that everyone who takes the job and goes to Iraq knows of!!!! You want the money - you take the responsibility and the rik!
Oh, before I forget - In 1997 I worked for the MHD (Malteser Hilfsidenst) doing voluntary aid work in Romania and the Sudan.

I knew the risk there and was fully aware of the dangers present.

As I said - you take the risk...

[Guest]

Martin,

You are, of course, entitled to your opinions but with the fate of these hostages still uncertain, not to mention the two French journalists and two female Italian aid workers, perhaps now is not the time to discuss the pro's and con's of people going to work in Iraq. People may go for many reasons. To have this discussion now seems, to me, insensitive to say the very least.

Let us hope that the remaining hostages will be returned to their families.

[Meekon]

well said Tessie!

[martin1001]

Tessie - you are right it is a bit insensitive.

But when will there be a right time or a wrong time?

Look at Lebanon, Beirut... They have been taking hostages for how long now? They only stopped taking western hostages when the people from the west stopped entering Beirut, better said the Lebanon.

To be fair - I had seriously thought about taking the mentioned job - but I didn´t as I heeded the warnings and it was obvious to a blind man that working their wasn´t a good idea at the present time.

The pros and cons have a valid point here; these pros and contras are the reason for people going to Iraq. The minority are doing it for little or no cash and are the people who are seriously interested in helping to rebuild the country.

Those going there because 500$ per day lure them there have also made their choice and that´s all their is to it.

It is a sad and misfortunate thing, that evil idiots take hostages and have no fear of reprisals but I sak anyone - how do the kidnappers get that far in the first place???

[Guest]

Martin,

I take your points and the discussion itself is a reasonable enough one to have. I just think that this is the wrong time for it. With the greatest respect, I couldn't care less what people's motives are, I just want to see them returned, unharmed to their familes. The discussion you are trying to have is another discussion entirely to the situation of the current hostages. People do things for many different reasons, very few of us ever do things for one reason only. To imply that people may go out to work in Iraq for purely monetary reasons seems irrelevant to this current discussion. Yes, people are warned of the risks but I assume that none of us know the precise reasons why any of these individuals went out to Iraq and therefore it would seem prudent not to make assumptions.

You may well have some good points, but, again with respect, the way this discussion is now turning is making me feel rather sick. I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound rude, but I happen to feel very deeply for the families involved in this situation, as do many of us I suspect. I don't know any of them but that doesn't stop me feeling for them.

As I said before, please let us all hope that they will be returned to their families unharmed.

[BBC]

http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=3529015

'Kidnappers Murder Second US Hostage in Iraq'

By Jennifer Sym, PA News
Kidnappers holding Briton Kenneth Bigley are believed to have executed the remaining American hostage tonight, following the murder of Eugene Armstrong yesterday.

Mr Bigley, 62, is now thought to be the only captive remaining in the hands of the Tawhid and Jihad militant group following the apparent beheading of colleague Jack Hensley.

The Briton was seized alongside the Americans by the group, led by the notorious Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, from the garden of their home in the wealthy al-Mansour district of Baghdad without a struggle last Thursday.

The hostage takers are demanding the release of Iraqi women from jails.

A video released early on Saturday morning warned the men would be murdered unless women prisoners were released within 48 hours.

Last night, horrific video footage showing the beheading of American Eugene Armstrong was broadcast on a website and a body believed to be his was later recovered.

In the video, a speaker indicated the remaining two hostages would be killed one at a time and did not specify whether Mr Hensley or Mr Bigley would be next. He said: “Abide by our demand in full and release all the Muslim women, otherwise the head of the other will follow this one.”

The US military said no women are held at either Abu Ghraib and Umm Qasr prisons, although it says two female “security prisoners” are held elsewhere.

On a website tonight, an apparent message from the kidnappers stated: “The nation’s zealous children slaughtered the second American hostage ... after the end of the deadline ... We will provide you with film of the slaughter soon, God willing.”

The statement was signed in the pseudonym Abu Maysara al-Iraqi, who has posted past statements in the group’s name.

[flo]

May the people responsible for this rot in hell.

[Chuckie1970]

I am truly saddened by the beheadings in Iraq. And never understand how people don't repect life.

But I have to agree with Martin on this ... contractors are there for the money. They are given a choice to go. I worked for an environmental engineer firm who offered a great deal of money to work in environments like Iraq. No one was forced to go.

Aid workers and journos know the risk as well.

I hope that these kidnappings and slaughters stop but it won't. There are no rules in war.

[Greg S]

Hmm....either way for Blair its a loose - loose situation. If he sits by and does nothing he will be crucified by the media. If he complies with the terrorists it will open the flood gates for even MORE terrorism......

Well Blair created this mess........only thing to do now is watch his self destruction...

To our troops - come home safe. Godspeed.

[Guest]

Aid workers and journos know the risk as well.

Being aware of a risk is one thing, but few people are really fully prepared for the reality of any situation until they are acutally there.

Aid workers distribute food, re-start water and electrical supplies, staff the hospitals, treat the injured, attempt to run immunisation programmes in order to prevent further disease, help to organise shelter for people who may've lost their homes, run facilities which take care of children who may've been orphaned, distribute food and other supplies which are sent in ....... the list is endless. Of course the Military also do many of these jobs, but they usually prefer to hand them over, where possible, to the aid agencies who are better 'set up' to run this type of programme.

Without the input of aid workers the job of the Military would be made even harder and many of the local people wouldn't receive the services which they deserve.

[martin1001]

Tessie - you have a point with the aid workers.

That doesn´t stop the terrorists as you well know.

In fact, if I was a terrorist, out to disrupt the organisation of the country I was in, I would aim at the aid workers first. Stop aid, and foreigners, entering, fight "the enemy" and implement my rule.

Well, that´s what I was taught on understanding guerilla tactics.

And hey, it works - Sad as it may seem, the minority (terrorists) are winning as they have nothing to lose, not even their own life!

[Guest]

In fact, if I was a terrorist, out to disrupt the organisation of the country I was in, I would aim at the aid workers first. Stop aid, and foreigners, entering, fight "the enemy" and implement my rule.

Yes, you make a very salient point there Martin, sadly.

I think the point which I was trying to make is that not every civilian who goes out to Iraq (or any other trouble zone) does it for financial gain. Some people go for much more altruistic reasons. It would be a very sorry state of affairs indeed if no-one was prepared to take the risk.

[martin1001]

I think that many people do not realise how many people are genuine in wanting to help the rebuild of Iraq. Perhaps it even passes by the terrorists narrow horizon, that someone somewhere does try and make a difference via a cost effective way - volunteers - .

Nonetheless, it does not seem to interest those in a political / religious position to alter these facts and as such has the ruling of certain parts of the country.

Also, I think that there are many who underestimate the danger and thus go unprepared, ill equiped and without logistical and security backup.

It is more of a helpless feeling that numbs me, I would like to scream out and make the killing (on both sides) come to an end but my screams would drown in the cess pit of hate which a handful are stirring.

At best, people from the outside are persona non grata which is putting it mildly!

I have placed a prayer for those less fortunate then myself in my silent minutes as this is all that I can add to help their misery.