Hi there Pilgrim
Percentages of different faiths in the UK, it may be a bit dated, couldn't find anything on the beeb website
According to this CIA government website on world religions.. it is Christian (Anglican, Roman Catholic, Presbyterian, Methodist) 71.6%, Muslim 2.7%, Hindu 1%, other 1.6%, unspecified or none 23.1% (2001 census)
In the US however..its Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24%, Mormon 2%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%, other 10%, none 10% (2002 est.)
http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac ... /2122.html
I really like reading your posts of wisdom, are you sure you are Cof E or a Buddhist !
I will answer the rest in due course, the microbes are driving me potty in the lab, not doing what they are supposed to !
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Gem from Wholley
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Pilgrim Norway
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My microbes aren’t behaving either – disintegration I believe it’s called.
Not Buddhist – just old – old….. and a member of our local Liberal Party.
( Doing a Paddy Ashdown without the frilly bits ).
I’ve enjoyed this thread mainly because it has forced me to again look at
the background ‘stuff’- such as the links I enclose…..
The percentages that you have found are perhaps taken from a document
such as the voting register – the electoral roll, where one may register as
a Jedi if one wishes. I think that the percentage of those who practice
Christianity regularly in their parish church and chapels may be far lower -
Here in Norway there is a movement to withdraw the Church from the
State – something which would entail ‘joining‘ the faith of your choice –
and paying for membership - rather than being entered into the Church of
Norway at birth. This will prove without doubt how many practising
Christians we have in fact here and how many members of other religions
are registered……..As religions are ‘staked’, given allowances, ‘per head’
ALL religions send in claims of ‘followers’.
There are fundamentalists in every religion.
“Pan Islam” was something that Khomeini started off but when it came to
the crunch his project concerned only Shiites………..
http://abcnews.go.com/International/sto ... 247&page=1
Old stuff too !
It would be wrong to blame a 1400 year old religion for the evil that has
it’s origin in a militant version of the same, a totalitarian ideology which is
under 100 years old. The militant Islam is the problem and the moderate
Islam is the solution.
Following is also worth a look :-
http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/010541.html
I like this one – very relevant -
“Goals in the West: Do you accept that Western countries are
majority-Christian and secular or do you seek to transform them into
majority-Muslim countries ruled by Islamic law?
These questions offer a good start to the vexing issue of separating enemy
from friend. “
Integration is the key to a working community. Over here we see the
need for accepting a certain amount of immigration – as do most countries
in Europe. The majority would like to see pale complexioned, Norwegian
speaking, athletic types wearing ski sweaters and capable of performing a
reasonable ski technique. It doesn’t often work out that way.
We have today about 350,000 immigrants in Norway. These are first or
second generation immigrants, They came for many reasons, mostly
economic. The majority came here legally, some not.
Without these immigrants the wheels would not turn efficiently.
Immigrants are willing to accept the lower paid jobs – and the more
'menial’ – as I’ve already said – BUT – only the first generation –
After that – we’re equal…..
Anyway – the fabric of the original article was to alert people of the danger
of Fundamentalists –
We have a minister here who has effectively banned smoking – anywhere
– even in your own home !
Now – THAT – is a fundamentalist ! The Christian Peoples Party would you
believe ?
Just before I went out with the dog t'other day I caught a glimpse of
myself in the hall mirror - all donned out in a shell suit (like the ones used
on snow scooters ) and noticed that I had perhaps put on weight over the
holidays..... so I asked my wife if I resembled Sharon - she replied 'No'
she replied - 'He's in a coma' .......
I will be too if I don’t take a break here…..
‘Aye
Not Buddhist – just old – old….. and a member of our local Liberal Party.
( Doing a Paddy Ashdown without the frilly bits ).
I’ve enjoyed this thread mainly because it has forced me to again look at
the background ‘stuff’- such as the links I enclose…..
The percentages that you have found are perhaps taken from a document
such as the voting register – the electoral roll, where one may register as
a Jedi if one wishes. I think that the percentage of those who practice
Christianity regularly in their parish church and chapels may be far lower -
Here in Norway there is a movement to withdraw the Church from the
State – something which would entail ‘joining‘ the faith of your choice –
and paying for membership - rather than being entered into the Church of
Norway at birth. This will prove without doubt how many practising
Christians we have in fact here and how many members of other religions
are registered……..As religions are ‘staked’, given allowances, ‘per head’
ALL religions send in claims of ‘followers’.
There are fundamentalists in every religion.
“Pan Islam” was something that Khomeini started off but when it came to
the crunch his project concerned only Shiites………..
http://abcnews.go.com/International/sto ... 247&page=1
Old stuff too !
It would be wrong to blame a 1400 year old religion for the evil that has
it’s origin in a militant version of the same, a totalitarian ideology which is
under 100 years old. The militant Islam is the problem and the moderate
Islam is the solution.
Following is also worth a look :-
http://www.harvardmagazine.com/on-line/010541.html
I like this one – very relevant -
“Goals in the West: Do you accept that Western countries are
majority-Christian and secular or do you seek to transform them into
majority-Muslim countries ruled by Islamic law?
These questions offer a good start to the vexing issue of separating enemy
from friend. “
Integration is the key to a working community. Over here we see the
need for accepting a certain amount of immigration – as do most countries
in Europe. The majority would like to see pale complexioned, Norwegian
speaking, athletic types wearing ski sweaters and capable of performing a
reasonable ski technique. It doesn’t often work out that way.
We have today about 350,000 immigrants in Norway. These are first or
second generation immigrants, They came for many reasons, mostly
economic. The majority came here legally, some not.
Without these immigrants the wheels would not turn efficiently.
Immigrants are willing to accept the lower paid jobs – and the more
'menial’ – as I’ve already said – BUT – only the first generation –
After that – we’re equal…..
Anyway – the fabric of the original article was to alert people of the danger
of Fundamentalists –
We have a minister here who has effectively banned smoking – anywhere
– even in your own home !
Now – THAT – is a fundamentalist ! The Christian Peoples Party would you
believe ?
Just before I went out with the dog t'other day I caught a glimpse of
myself in the hall mirror - all donned out in a shell suit (like the ones used
on snow scooters ) and noticed that I had perhaps put on weight over the
holidays..... so I asked my wife if I resembled Sharon - she replied 'No'
she replied - 'He's in a coma' .......
I will be too if I don’t take a break here…..
‘Aye
Trog
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Hello again Pilgrim,,
I’ll be weary of the Toon Army then. I went to a Fulham V Celtic match once, it was very enjoyable, although I heard its better to avoid Rangers V Celtic !!
When I travel abroad, I sort of unconsciously bring britishness with me, ie cans of tuna, and Cadburys chocolate and kitkat. The kitkat in my original country was made in China, it was horrible !!
Religion is very bizarre phenomenom. cause of many wars, misunderstandings and innuendo We may not celebrate Christmas the way you do, I still watch midnight mass and listen to Carols from Kings College and have Turkey with the family !
Many thanks for those websites. The Havard magazine website was very interesting and made me think about many issues.
Secularism & Goals in the West
I believe in a secular society where religion is a personal commitment between God and man in his home and place of worship. Whatever your adopted country, one should abide by their laws. With regards to islamic customs such as Ramadan, there are ways of accommodating secular parties and religious people, its been practised here for many years. If its Eid , take a annual day off !Also, Shariah law needs to be reviewed in the 21st century in muslim countries and really cannot be not applied to the West.
Islamic Pluralism
I sort of look at the religion like a tree, there are many different branches (ways of expressing your devotion to God) but they stem from the same root (Principle teachings).
Militant Islam
Moderate Islam—definitely the solution. It was moderate until you rightly mentioned when Khomeini came on the scene, he changed and challenged people’s way of thinking in many muslim countries by radicalising it. In recent times political climates has changed made it more famous or ‘infamous’ in today’s media news!
However, the question is why did he have such a great following and manage to topple a powerful ‘Shah’ whilst living in France at the time ? Many things were going wrong in Iran and people became disenchanted, it was not only religious clerics but rich educated classes and intellectuals who supported him initially.
BTW, you may want to look at this website by this writer Irshad Manji. She caused quite a stir a few years back by writing a book called ‘Trouble with Islam’. She upset the traditionalists, fellow muslim communities and had a few death threats. Her views were a bit too extreme on the other end of the spectrum if you get my drift. The fact that she was a declared lesbian living with her partner didn’t help either.
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/
BTW, Pilgrim in the New Scientist, (07/0106) now that you mention ‘Christian fundamentalism. In http://www.newscientist.com/home.ns.
There is a debate in the some schools in the US that whether ‘Darwinism’ should be taught or dropped as part of the curriculum “
Article Preview
Creationists seek a redesign
• 07 January 2006
• Celeste Biever
• Magazine issue 2533
The court ruling forbidding the teaching of intelligent design as science in Pennsylvanian public schools has weakened the ID movement
"SO THERE is a Santa Claus after all," laughed Barbara Forrest. Santa came early for her, when US federal judge John Jones ruled last month that intelligent design, the creationist challenge to Darwinism, cannot be taught in public schools in central Pennsylvania. The verdict is expected to discourage other school districts that may be thinking of putting it on the curriculum.
Forrest, a philosopher at Southeastern Louisiana University in Hammond, has chronicled how the intelligent design (ID) movement has developed from its creationist roots. She testified for the 11 parents who were suing the school board of the Dover Area School District, Pennsylvania, in the federal district court. On 20 December Jones ruled in favour of the parents' claim that ID is primarily a religious theory, not a scientific one, and hence cannot be taught in public schools.
In his 139-page judgment, Jones made it clear that ID fails as ...
The complete article is 769 words long.
About Norway,
Where are these immigrants originally from ?
Have they adapted well learning the language and culture compared with the UK ?
I know there a quite a sizeable Pakistani community in Oslo.
That’s all for tonight.
P.S
Looking at your profile pic, you look like a 'cool David Niven !
I’ll be weary of the Toon Army then. I went to a Fulham V Celtic match once, it was very enjoyable, although I heard its better to avoid Rangers V Celtic !!
When I travel abroad, I sort of unconsciously bring britishness with me, ie cans of tuna, and Cadburys chocolate and kitkat. The kitkat in my original country was made in China, it was horrible !!
Religion is very bizarre phenomenom. cause of many wars, misunderstandings and innuendo We may not celebrate Christmas the way you do, I still watch midnight mass and listen to Carols from Kings College and have Turkey with the family !
Many thanks for those websites. The Havard magazine website was very interesting and made me think about many issues.
Secularism & Goals in the West
I believe in a secular society where religion is a personal commitment between God and man in his home and place of worship. Whatever your adopted country, one should abide by their laws. With regards to islamic customs such as Ramadan, there are ways of accommodating secular parties and religious people, its been practised here for many years. If its Eid , take a annual day off !Also, Shariah law needs to be reviewed in the 21st century in muslim countries and really cannot be not applied to the West.
Islamic Pluralism
I sort of look at the religion like a tree, there are many different branches (ways of expressing your devotion to God) but they stem from the same root (Principle teachings).
Militant Islam
Moderate Islam—definitely the solution. It was moderate until you rightly mentioned when Khomeini came on the scene, he changed and challenged people’s way of thinking in many muslim countries by radicalising it. In recent times political climates has changed made it more famous or ‘infamous’ in today’s media news!
However, the question is why did he have such a great following and manage to topple a powerful ‘Shah’ whilst living in France at the time ? Many things were going wrong in Iran and people became disenchanted, it was not only religious clerics but rich educated classes and intellectuals who supported him initially.
BTW, you may want to look at this website by this writer Irshad Manji. She caused quite a stir a few years back by writing a book called ‘Trouble with Islam’. She upset the traditionalists, fellow muslim communities and had a few death threats. Her views were a bit too extreme on the other end of the spectrum if you get my drift. The fact that she was a declared lesbian living with her partner didn’t help either.
http://www.muslim-refusenik.com/
BTW, Pilgrim in the New Scientist, (07/0106) now that you mention ‘Christian fundamentalism. In http://www.newscientist.com/home.ns.
There is a debate in the some schools in the US that whether ‘Darwinism’ should be taught or dropped as part of the curriculum “
Article Preview
Creationists seek a redesign
• 07 January 2006
• Celeste Biever
• Magazine issue 2533
The court ruling forbidding the teaching of intelligent design as science in Pennsylvanian public schools has weakened the ID movement
"SO THERE is a Santa Claus after all," laughed Barbara Forrest. Santa came early for her, when US federal judge John Jones ruled last month that intelligent design, the creationist challenge to Darwinism, cannot be taught in public schools in central Pennsylvania. The verdict is expected to discourage other school districts that may be thinking of putting it on the curriculum.
Forrest, a philosopher at Southeastern Louisiana University in Hammond, has chronicled how the intelligent design (ID) movement has developed from its creationist roots. She testified for the 11 parents who were suing the school board of the Dover Area School District, Pennsylvania, in the federal district court. On 20 December Jones ruled in favour of the parents' claim that ID is primarily a religious theory, not a scientific one, and hence cannot be taught in public schools.
In his 139-page judgment, Jones made it clear that ID fails as ...
The complete article is 769 words long.
About Norway,
Where are these immigrants originally from ?
Have they adapted well learning the language and culture compared with the UK ?
I know there a quite a sizeable Pakistani community in Oslo.
That’s all for tonight.
P.S
Looking at your profile pic, you look like a 'cool David Niven !
-
Wholley
- Guest
-
Pilgrim Norway
- Member
- Posts: 1428
- Joined: Wed 17 Apr, 2002 9:49 am
- Location: Årnes, Norway
At least I didn't paste your original message here Paul......
AND I was on the list of recipients.....
Still - it has been a canny thread - and I've been getting bouyant !
The main message should still be though that the men and women doing
the job in Iraq and other sandy places are doing a surgeons job -
taking out the bad bits.
In addition the global community should be made aware of fundamentalists 'cashing in' on religious zealor and dissatisfaction.
We've seen it before in the west too. The 'Crusades' were nowt to shout about either - though I did enjoy the forts on Malta..... or rather, the gut....
'Us' and 'Them' are clearer when they're looked at closer.
Mind you - no-one could recruit me in a pub as a bomber............
unless they offered Newcastle Brown in the old tall bottles, and let me
pack the bag...........
Marina has some good points - No-one is bashing her religion -
and the links given might just inspire someone to go take a look !
Any road up - the trouble was started long before 11 September and has
spread over several continents......
Good thread Paul...........
BUT - if only Marina and I are pitching we can go over to PM's
Marina, thanks for the links. Most of our immigrants are from India and
Pakistan but all countries seem to be represented. Vietnam has a fair
sized community. There is racial violence and unrest here too, but on a
smaller scale - All seem to pick up the language quite easily and very
quickly - it's the key to employment and assimilation.
Whoa there - I'm off again ......
'Aye
AND I was on the list of recipients.....
Still - it has been a canny thread - and I've been getting bouyant !
The main message should still be though that the men and women doing
the job in Iraq and other sandy places are doing a surgeons job -
taking out the bad bits.
In addition the global community should be made aware of fundamentalists 'cashing in' on religious zealor and dissatisfaction.
We've seen it before in the west too. The 'Crusades' were nowt to shout about either - though I did enjoy the forts on Malta..... or rather, the gut....
'Us' and 'Them' are clearer when they're looked at closer.
Mind you - no-one could recruit me in a pub as a bomber............
unless they offered Newcastle Brown in the old tall bottles, and let me
pack the bag...........
Marina has some good points - No-one is bashing her religion -
and the links given might just inspire someone to go take a look !
Any road up - the trouble was started long before 11 September and has
spread over several continents......
Good thread Paul...........
BUT - if only Marina and I are pitching we can go over to PM's
Marina, thanks for the links. Most of our immigrants are from India and
Pakistan but all countries seem to be represented. Vietnam has a fair
sized community. There is racial violence and unrest here too, but on a
smaller scale - All seem to pick up the language quite easily and very
quickly - it's the key to employment and assimilation.
Whoa there - I'm off again ......
'Aye
Trog
45 Recce yomper
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Wholley
- Guest
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Pilgrim Norway
- Member
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- Joined: Wed 17 Apr, 2002 9:49 am
- Location: Årnes, Norway
Hoy Paul - we must be 'online' - see, the internet thingy IS great .....
AND - I've just noticed Marina's remark about me resembling a
Cool David Niven .........Now THAT deserves a chapter on it's own !
Mind you - David Niven was still alive when that photograph was taken -
middle sixties I would say ..... Nineteen sixties, Paul - Nineteen sixties....
On the subject I notice that not many have pasted their photographs -
Wait a mo - is that David Niven bit a compliment or what ?
I seem to remember the incident of the Ball where he went in wearing a
rug and disguised as a goat and deposited chocolate fudge (or somat )
to look like droppings - he was NOT popular with the commanding officer -
AND - I've just noticed Marina's remark about me resembling a
Cool David Niven .........Now THAT deserves a chapter on it's own !
Mind you - David Niven was still alive when that photograph was taken -
middle sixties I would say ..... Nineteen sixties, Paul - Nineteen sixties....
On the subject I notice that not many have pasted their photographs -
Wait a mo - is that David Niven bit a compliment or what ?
I seem to remember the incident of the Ball where he went in wearing a
rug and disguised as a goat and deposited chocolate fudge (or somat )
to look like droppings - he was NOT popular with the commanding officer -
Trog
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Pilgrim Norway
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- Location: Årnes, Norway
What have I done ?? How do get out of this thread ?
Has Wholley started his crusade yet ? My Jihad degree hasn’t finished. I am doing Logic, Philosophy and verbal struggle course at the moment. Its really hard especially the Rumi syllabus. I opted out of the physical one, I never was much good at PE or electronic devices !
I know you guys are not bashing the old faith. Its just that as Ruth said if you are a certain sect or faith you get stereotyped with these extremists.
I better get back to my harem !!
See you later
P.S
David Niven was so cool in ‘The Guns of Navarone’ ! His book ‘The Moon’s a balloon is very funny !
Has Wholley started his crusade yet ? My Jihad degree hasn’t finished. I am doing Logic, Philosophy and verbal struggle course at the moment. Its really hard especially the Rumi syllabus. I opted out of the physical one, I never was much good at PE or electronic devices !
I know you guys are not bashing the old faith. Its just that as Ruth said if you are a certain sect or faith you get stereotyped with these extremists.
I better get back to my harem !!
See you later
P.S
David Niven was so cool in ‘The Guns of Navarone’ ! His book ‘The Moon’s a balloon is very funny !
-
Wholley
- Guest
What have you done?Marina wrote:What have I done ?? How do get out of this thread ?
Nuffing.
I send a perfectly innocent E-Mail to some Welsh Git And I'm suddenly on a crusade.
At least Alan is remaining the perfect gentleman.
The Moons a Balloon was hilarious along with the sequel though the title escapes me right now.
Now what was I doing?
Oh yeah that was it.
Gotta go and be-head an Inifidel
Wahabi anyone?
OK mines a pint.
-
Pilgrim Norway
- Member
- Posts: 1428
- Joined: Wed 17 Apr, 2002 9:49 am
- Location: Årnes, Norway
If this has been anything it certainly has NOT been one liner stuff !
Was a great thread – enjoyed – and made me whack my grey matter.
Harem ? Harem ? - Ok – but I’m not putting a billiard ball in my mouth.
communicating when we first met up in my squad.... Brummies, Geordies,
Scousers..... you think you have a hard time ...... No wonder the Corps
never has racial problems - We're so used to "Foreigners" from all over
the UK - not to mention over the borders - Scotland - Wales - Cornwall.....
Until we learned MarineSpeak we were totally lost.
Couldn't understand the Drill Instructors either - they had their own
language -
Then there was going aboard ship - That was a separate religion -
with it's own rites and language - no upstairs downstairs there......
NO - You lot - I'm not even going NEAR that one .............
God bless ......
Was a great thread – enjoyed – and made me whack my grey matter.
Harem ? Harem ? - Ok – but I’m not putting a billiard ball in my mouth.
Marina - You should try the Brummi syllibus - we had great difficultyIts really hard especially the Rumi syllabus
communicating when we first met up in my squad.... Brummies, Geordies,
Scousers..... you think you have a hard time ...... No wonder the Corps
never has racial problems - We're so used to "Foreigners" from all over
the UK - not to mention over the borders - Scotland - Wales - Cornwall.....
Until we learned MarineSpeak we were totally lost.
Couldn't understand the Drill Instructors either - they had their own
language -
Then there was going aboard ship - That was a separate religion -
with it's own rites and language - no upstairs downstairs there......
I never was much good at PE or electronic devices !
NO - You lot - I'm not even going NEAR that one .............
God bless ......
Trog
45 Recce yomper
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