TA - Is it worth it?

[rambette]

What about this?

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/scraptheTA/

Do you think they have a point?

[Hands on]

What, not getting the support you thought you would on arrse

[Kookullin]

Need to post this first before this site will let me post what I want to.

[Kookullin]

I refer my honourable friend to a previous answer on this thread.

1. Does the TA provide value for money?

The MoD has £32 billion to spend in 2006-07.

No one knows quite how much the TA costs to run, presumably because it piggy-backs on regular expenditure. See here. But I have heard a "best guess" from a grand fromage who should know about such things: £430 million.

This means that the TA accounts for about 1.3% of the defence budget.

In return for that investment, the TA (and, though much fewer in number) other reservists constituted about one-quarter of UK forces in the Iraq war.

As at 20 March 2006, some 9,394 TA personnel had served on Op TELIC alone. See here. That number will obviously be greater now. You also need to add to it the numbers who have served on HERRICK and other operations.

At the moment (more or less), some 1,300 TA personnel are mobilised (see here). That represents about one-tenth of the TA's deployable strength.

Devoting 1.3% of the budget to the TA as an insurance policy only makes sense if the TA can actually be called on when needed. The experience of the last five or six years has shown that this is true.

So it's £430 million well spent.

2. Is the TA necessary? (E-Layer's addtional question)

That depends on whether you want the UK to continue to have the ability to influence the world in a way that suits its interests.

No TA means no expeditionary capability for the UK for a medium-sized conflict or greater.

In fact, you could argue that without the TA the United Kingdom would not be able to manage even a small-scale effort.

In the future, the Territorial Army will primarily be used to augment the Regular Army for a large-scale operation. For smaller operations, the Department is planning on the basis that a fully-manned, restructured Regular Army should be able to provide most of the necessary capability on its own, supplemented by a small number of specialist Territorial Army units. The Territorial Army will continue to be mobilised for small and medium-scale operations, including enduring operations when Defence Planning Assumptions are exceeded, as they are at present.

No ability to participate in expeditionary conflict at medium size or greater means the UK would pack the same military and diplomatic punch as, say, the Netherlands or Italy.

As Lord Inge (that's Field Marshal Inge, a former Chief of the General Staff) put it on 20 November 2006 (see here):

I shall talk first about overstretch. The gaps between operational tours were laid down in harmony guidelines that were not produced with the intensity of conflict that we are talking about in Afghanistan and Iraq; they are based more on the sort of commitment that we had in Northern Ireland. Moreover, we are already breaking those harmony guidelines. It is also true to say that, without the help of the Territorial Army, the Regular Army could not have coped.

[Leslie-RMLY-]

This is I believe is very true. All armies through out the world rely on Reservists and forces like the TA.

The US army relies alot on there National Guard to take the place of the regs to free up resources. There will come a time when UK TA units will more than likely do this as well to help releave the strain on our over worked regs.

There are many fors and not many against for the TA and with out them the short fall of troops and ultimatly the strength of our forces would be affected greatly.

Anyhow im gunna shut up now hiccup!

[RA_Tom]

Probably just some fat cnut that failed the PFT, only four other fat forks have signed.

Shame you cant contact the petition creators to tell them the facts. Apart from the valid points made above the TA acts a recruitment aid for the regular armed forces, three people from my unit are in the process of joining the regs, although one is joining the RAF

I think soldiers you send on operations and only pay full time for that duration, who dont get a pension are a bargain. I would like to kick julie of gowan in the arse. twat.

[Tab]

If you get rid of the TA what would you have as a reserve force.

[RA_Tom]

If you get rid of the TA what would you have as a reserve force.

Exactly - one of my Grandfathers was in the TA at the outbreak of WW2 and was mobilised with the 8th Army and fought in North Africa and at Monte Cassino. Of course in those days society was full of volunteers to defend freedom, so TA soldiers augmented the Regular personnel and then they were augmented by a raft of citizen soldiers. Would that happen in 2007? Not likely.

Sick of the wishy washy attitude of people in Britain today perpetuated by BBC and Channel 4 News agenda for a foreign policy of appeasement.

[tiger76]

Seems ironic that morons like the thread poster don’t seem to realise that reservists have given their lives in the service of the crown. 1 guy from 4 Para, 2 from 23SAS, 1 from 63 Sigs all killed in operations in Afghanistan, and that is only in the last few weeks. There are indeed many more permanently injured. You should be ashamed to remember them by agreeing with this petition!!!

[anglo-saxon]

The original post is a non-starter and the petition is abject drivel!

Reserve armies are a cost-effective way of of maintaining a force of reasonably trained troops who require only limited upgrading and possibly theatre-/mission-specific training alongside their regular counterparts prior to deployment. They also constitute one of the mechanisms for home defense in the event that the country comes under threat.

As said before, the regular army these day cannot properly function without the reserve troops. It's exactly the same in Canada, with up to 40% Reserve augmentees in some units and mission HQs.

[Wholley]

Samey same in the US.
Both boots on the ground and love from above are provided by National Guard and reserve units.
Stupid petition if you want my opinion.

Lt.NCNG.JAG(R)

[Tab]

There was time before Labour came to power in 1993 that the reserves were never used except for a few Specialist like doctors. It was the cuts that the Labour party made after gaining power in the the Army and the TA that has put it in this position, and they are still trying to run their forces on the cheap by using the TA rather than recruiting more men into the regular army.

[Alfa]

Tab, a Labour Government in 1993?

It was the Tories that initiated "Options for change" Labour didn't come to power until 1997.

All Governments cut their military when they can possibly get away with it, no matter what they may profess when in opposition, it's an easy way to save money as no one who can't be easily ignored will make much fuss about it.

[Viking1]

look at my idea on this at my new thread...interesting ideas?

[anglo-saxon]

Even Maggie (God bless 'er) made some cuts.

Most augmentees in the Army prior to the current scenario were part of the S-Type engagement scheme. The Duke of Edinburgh's Royal Regt. had 4 or 5 TA lads per pl in Cyprus in 84/85. Some lads even ended up in Recce Pl and Mortars. Everyone got along fine and just did the job.