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The VTOL F35B

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The VTOL F35B

#1 Post by Tab » Sat 21 Apr, 2012 7:46 pm

This is the aircraft which should be used on our new aircraft carriers, it has also been funded by the UK Government and the engine is a Rolls Royce design if I remember rightly.


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Wholley

Re: The VTOL F35B

#2 Post by Wholley » Tue 08 May, 2012 10:02 pm

This is'nt.



Fighter Pilots Claim Intimidation Over F-22 Raptor Jets
ABC NewsBy LEE FERRAN and MEGAN CHUCHMACH | ABC News – Mon, May 7, 2012

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Fighter Pilots Claim Intimidation Over F-22 Raptor Jets (ABC News)

Fighter Pilots Claim Intimidation …

Two F-22 Raptor pilots have said publicly that not only are they afraid to fly the most expensive fighter jets in American history, but the military has attempted to silence them and other F-22 pilots by threatening their careers.

"There have been squadrons that have stood down over concerns. And there's been threat of reprisals," F-22 pilot Josh Wilson told CBS News' "60 Minutes" Sunday. "There's been threat of flying evaluation boards clipping our wings and doing ground jobs. And... in my case, potentially getting booted out of the Air Force.

"So right now there's an example being set of, 'Hey, if you speak up about safety, you're going to be out of the organization,'" Wilson said.

Despite the Air Force's glowing descriptions of the next-generation jet as America's future of air dominance, as an ABC News "Nightline" investigation broadcast last week found, unknown problems with the plane's oxygen system have already contributed to the death of one pilot, the near-death of another and mid-air scares for dozens more.

READ Exclusive: Family Demands Truth in Air Force F-22 Pilot's Death

Wilson and fellow F-22 pilot Jeremy Gordon, both veteran fighter pilots for the Virginia Air National Guard who came forward under whistleblower protection from Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R.-Ill.), have asked not to fly the F-22 anymore, according to CBS News, citing their concerns with the oxygen problem.

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Gordon said that two weeks after he requested not to fly the jet, he was called before a board of officers.

"I was asked to make a decision that day whether I wanted to fly or find another line of work," he said.

Several current and former F-22 pilots contacted by ABC News for its investigation either did not respond or quickly declined to comment on the plane and two relatives of flyers told ABC News that the pilots had been instructed not to speak to the media on penalty of potentially losing their post with the F-22 -- a coveted position despite the safety concerns. One pilot, when initially contacted by ABC News for comment, agreed to speak on the record but only after he checked with the Air Force public affairs office. Since then, the pilot has not responded to any of ABC News' attempts to communicate.

Air Force spokesperson John Dorrian told ABC News he has no information about any pilots being explicitly told not to speak to the media about the Raptor and noted that several F-22 pilots have been made available to the press at Air Force events. Dorrian did say that if a member of the Air Force wishes to speak with the media as a representative of the Air Force, that engagement is conducted through the Air Force public affairs office, but whistleblowers are still protected.

"Corporately, the Air Force position is the Air Force is not going to tolerate any reprisal actions against whistleblowers," Dorrian said.

Since Wilson and Gordon are assigned to the Virginia Air National Guard, Dorrian said he did not have specific information on their case. Officials at the Virginia Air National Guard did not immediately return requests for comment for this report.

Top officials at the Air Force and Lockheed Martin refused to take part in one-on-one interviews with ABC News for its broadcast report, but the Air Force provided a statement last week in which it says the service is committed to "unparalleled dedication to flight safety."

"Flying America's premier fighter aircraft always entails risk but the Air Force has, and always will, take every measure to ensure the safety of our aircrews while delivering air superiority for the nation," the statement said. The Air Force has also stressed that reports of "hypoxia-like symptoms" are exceedingly rare -- more than two dozen compared to the thousands of flights flown without incident.

READ: Air Force's Full Statement in Response to ABC News Investigation

Last week the Air Force officially received the last F-22 Raptor from defense contracting giant Lockheed Martin, completing an order of 187 planes that cost U.S. taxpayers an estimated $79 billion -- meaning that including research, development and production among other costs, each plane has a price tag of more than $420 million. Despite being the most advanced fighters on the planet, none of the planes have been used on a combat mission since they went combat-ready in late 2005. Critics told ABC News that's because the jet was designed to fight rival, sophisticated fighters – an enemy that doesn't exist right now.

READ: Final F-22 Delivered, McCain Says $79B Jets Still Have No Mission

F-22 Pilot Blamed in Fatal Crash After Plane Malfunction

Capt. Jeff Haney was flying the Air Force's next-generation stealth F-22 Raptor on a routine training mission in Alaska in November 2010 when a sudden malfunction cut off his oxygen completely. Capt. Haney never made a distress call but took his plane into a dive and, a little over a minute later, crashed into the winter wilderness at faster than the speed of sound.

After a lengthy investigation, an Air Force Accident Investigation Board could not find the cause of the malfunction but determined "by clear and convincing evidence" that in addition to other factors, Haney was to blame for the crash because he was too distracted by his inability to breathe to fly the plane properly.

READ: Air Force's Accident Investigation Board Report (PDF)

But Haney's sister, Jennifer, told ABC News in an exclusive interview she believes her brother blacked out trying to save himself and said that by blaming him, the Air Force was attempting to deflect attention from the ongoing, mysterious oxygen problem with the costly planes.

"I don't agree with [the Air Force]. I think there was a lot more going on inside that cockpit," Jennifer Haney said. "A cover-up? I don't know. But there's something."

In at least 25 cases since 2008, F-22 pilots have reported experiencing "hypoxia-like symptoms" in mid-air, according to the Air Force. Last year the Air Force grounded the full fleet of F-22s for nearly five months to investigate, but still no one knows what is going wrong, even as the planes are back in the air. Hypoxia is caused by a lack of oxygen to the brain and is characterized by dizziness, confusion, lack of judgment and, eventually, unconsciousness.

In one case before the grounding, a pilot became so disoriented that his plane dropped down and skimmed treetops before he managed to save himself and return to base, an Air Force spokesperson told ABC News. Presumably speaking of the same incident, Gordon told "60 Minutes" the pilot had to be told he had hit the trees -- he didn't remember doing it himself.

Wilson described experiencing apparent hypoxia while in the cockpit as a "surreal experience" and Gordon said the onset is "insidious."

"Some pilots will go the entire mission, land and not know anything went wrong," Gordon said.

To Jennifer Haney, every time an F-22 goes up, it's risking the life of its pilot. She spoke to ABC News because she said she couldn't stand to see another family go through what hers had.

"I know that the Air Force has said that they were very proud to have Jeff and are very sorry for our loss -- well then, in Jeff's name, fix this," she said. "We want to make sure Jeff did not die in vain -- that his death will mean something and that if it saves lives of pilots now, future pilots, then he died for the greater good or something."

The Air Force has already begun to enact changes to the jet in hopes of mitigating the oxygen problem, including adding pilot-monitoring equipment and improving the emergency oxygen system.

But for all their effort, the Air Force still doesn't have what Jennifer Haney said is most important both to her family and to the families of pilots that risk their lives every day at the controls of the F-22: answers.

"I believe Jeff deserves that. That was my baby brother and I believe he deserves that. He deserves the truth to be told as to what happened. Not anybody's guesses," she said. "He deserves the truth. He deserves honor and so do his little girls."

WATCH '60 Minutes': Is the Air Force's F-22 Fighter Jet Making Pilots Sick?



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13 News, WVEC Hampton Roads
An Air Force F-22 Raptor goes through maneuvers during a demonstration at Langley Air Force Base in Hampton, Va., Monday, April 30, 2012. Air Force Gen. Mike Hostage, commander of Air Combat Command, said Monday that the F-22 Raptor is vital to the Air Force and that the service continues to search what is causing hypoxia like symptoms in some pilots. (AP Photo/Steve Helber)

An Air Force F-22 Raptor goes through …

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Fighter Pilots Claim Intimidation Over …

Days after ABC News aired an investigation into serious safety concerns … Full Story »Fighter Pilots Claim Intimidation Over F-22 Jets



All the technology in those planes and they cant get the the oxygen system right?

Stephen L
Stephen L 1 day 1 hr ago

That's what I was thinking. Why can't they just spent a mill or two to try and fix it. It doesn't seem like such a technologically challenging problem.

Nlightnd
Nlightnd 1 day 1 hr ago

They are using the engines exhaust to make oxygen. They showed it on tv

kickass
kickass 1 day 1 hr ago

... and there could be more than "oxygen-issue" at that..

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ddn
ddn • 1 day 2 hrs ago

This is a well know problem with the F-22 and they still haven't fixed it. Pilots are passing out and operating under low O2 condition. That's gonna be great for combat effectiveness, when our guys are semi-retarded from repeated O2 deprivation doesn't matter how expensive your warplane is..

J
J 1 day 1 hr ago

Well said. Of course it sounds like a situation that can be corrected. Get a few engineers to take a look and get the problem fixed. they could at least give them a back up, mobile air tank in case the system malfunctions while they wait on a solution.

Brett
Brett 1 day 1 hr ago

you just repeated the article basically...

irishmist23
irishmist23 1 day 1 hr ago

Do they have O2 saturation monitors attached to the pilots with warning buzzers if it gets too low? That might save some lives, because hypoxia can easily sneak up on you.

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Fortysomething
Fortysomething • 1 day 2 hrs ago

"Haney was to blame for the crash because he was too distracted by his inability to breathe to fly the plane properly." You gotta just love a government inquiry.

I am Your Mother
I am Your Mother 1 day 1 hr ago

I know... it's amazing how these people can say something... yet... they don't even know what they are saying...!

Justin W
Justin W 1 day 1 hr ago

I bet they didn't say that at his funeral instead they handed his wife a nice folded flag and acted like it was normal....

Perfect Stranger
Perfect Stranger 1 day 1 hr ago

So, basically they are saying Haney was to blame because he passed out. And why did he pass out?, because he was O2 deprived.

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d'boys
d'boys • Austin, Texas • 1 day 1 hr ago

How about members of that board going on the next flight with them?!

something
something 1 day 1 hr ago

That would be nice if the F-22 wasn't a single seater

Irvin
Irvin 1 day 0 hrs ago

Something, just tie one or two of the borad people to the wings. Ha problem fixed.

d'boys
d'boys 23 hrs ago

That's what I'm sayin Irvin! Something, have a little imagination.

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Jack
Jack • Irvine, California • 1 day 2 hrs ago

"Haney was to blame for the crash because he was too distracted by his inability to breathe to fly the plane properly."

So.... the new requirement for Air force pilot is the ability to not use oxygen?

Hechter
Hechter 1 day 1 hr ago

So wait... are the robots taking over this soon?

Jan
Jan 1 day 1 hr ago

Apparently so, Jack...

JetMech
JetMech 1 day 1 hr ago

Hechter picked up on that comment. You are exactly right, they want to do away with human fighter pilots entirely and use robots. They already ARE !

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Bob
Bob • Santa Fe, New Mexico • 23 hrs ago

"he was too distracted by his inability to breathe to fly the plane properly." I think the Air Force is distracted by a plane that's so screwed up they have forgotten about their pilots.

bd
bd • Gainesville, Florida • 1 day 2 hrs ago

One cannot fly if one cannot breath. I never thought that I would be uttering such an obvious statement.

mikek
mikek • 17 hrs ago

having been in the military, I have found that the service's priorities are to protect their congressional budgets their careers, the defense industry (their post retirement employers) public image and somewhere down the line, the mission

Thomas
Thomas • 1 day 2 hrs ago

Wait a minute. Hold everything. You're telling me there's corruption in the U.S. Government??

James
James • Irvine, California • 1 day 2 hrs ago

What a shame the F-22 has this kind of a glitch plus the fact that is has never been used in combat and it cost so much per plane. Somebody got their money's worth - it sure wasn't the tax-payer.

Brian F
Brian F • New Orleans, Louisiana • 1 day 1 hr ago

The fact that something so disgusting could be said/done by our military to our military servicemen is unbelievable. Blaming the pilot... I mean... words fail me

TN
TN • 1 day 1 hr ago

Each F22 cost $420 millions equiped with all high techs stuff but they couldn't fix oxygen?.

Bobbi
Bobbi • 1 day 1 hr ago

Who'd have thought that suffocating would be such a distraction.

Chuck U. Farley
Chuck U. Farley • 15 hrs ago

Let Lockheed Martin fix it for free, its still under warranty isn't it, we did get a guarantee
didn't we ? How about a Lemon Law ? anything ? or did Lockheed Martin cheat the
American military and taxpayers ? If they dont fix it for free, take our business
elsewhere

TC
TC • 22 hrs ago

Just like the Goverment higher ups not to just come out and say " We have a problem " or "We screwed up" and that reason is because they are doing it all the time now and they aren't as smart as they think they are--so they pass it over to the people that they work for--"The US Citizen" and in this case " Yours not the reason why--Yours is to do and die" I bow my head for Capt. Haney and hope his family gets there answers and hope any other F22 Pilot doesn't die because of some higher up threat to distroy a Pilots hard earned Career.

George J
George J • Venice, Florida • 1 day 1 hr ago

Seems simple enough to me! If you can't find the problem with the F22 Oxygen Systems-Rip them all out-And replace them all with a proven oxygen system from the F16 or F18!

Kevin
Kevin • Vancouver, Washington • 20 hrs ago

Not being able to breathe is not a distraction it is a crisis.

Brittany
Brittany • St Louis, Missouri • 3 hrs ago

"he was too distracted by his inability to breathe to fly the plane properly." im sorry, but since when are pilots suppose to be able to fly a plane without oxygen? seeing as how one cannot live without oxygen how the hell should they be able to fly a plane?

RR
RR • 1 day 0 hrs ago

"Haney was to blame for the crash because he was too distracted by his inability to breathe to fly the plane properly."
-- Yes he died because he did not learn how to breathe vacuum. What is wrong with him, his body unreasonably demanded air to breathe

meteorman77
meteorman77 • Chicago, Illinois • 13 hrs ago

government is not your friend people

M

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Re: The VTOL F35B

#3 Post by owdun » Tue 08 May, 2012 11:19 pm

'Kinnell Pauly,when you come back,you come back with a bang,me eyes are bleedin' after that lot. :D :D

Wholley

Re: The VTOL F35B

#4 Post by Wholley » Wed 09 May, 2012 12:02 am

You should have seen it before I did a little snipping.
How you keeping oppo?

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Re: The VTOL F35B

#5 Post by owdun » Wed 09 May, 2012 10:32 pm

Still hanging in there,Paul,have a couple of health problems,but,at 82 who aint got problems? :D :D

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