EU...in or out?

[Seven]

I'm sure there are dozens of negative effects of the EU we can all mention. And that's not just in the UK, in Holland farmer's have suffered at the hands of the EU. But there are many plusses to the EU as well, like I mentioned before, without the EU British Steel (Corus) would have gone bankrupt. The Airbus company is the prime reason the British aviation industry is still alive. Which only exists because the EU makes cooperation between France, Germany and the UK easier, and a lot cheaper than it otherwise would have been. I'm sure there are a lot more positive effects like this.
True most of the raw materials do not come from Europe, but like I said before, together it's a lot easier to negotiate trading agreements with countries that do have those raw materials.
The UK and Germany are not the only countries supporting the EU, France, Holland and Belgium are rich trading countries as well.

[Spannerman]

Labour on Europe

I wonder really how many Labour MP's are for full integration into the new constitution of Europe, I was listening to Kate Hooey MP, the other day and she is so anti-Euroland, how many others of the same persuasion? Why is B Liar so dogmatic on his approach to Europe?

Lib Dems

The LD appears to follow the same path as Labour but Kennedy is less dogmatic.

Conservatives

On the face of it Howard wants into Europe but appears to go with the flow of a 'pied piper' personality, many MP's would like to be in Europe as that is where 'big bucks' are made behind closed doors but others are very sceptical, including my MP Sir Michael Lord.

So what a choice those of us who are Anti European have, UKIP or BNP, the latter underperformed with 5% of the vote at the Euro Elections and the former getting 16% of the vote. The UKIP standing on one single issue (the EU) and at the General Election voters will revert to the big three. Leaving the BNP as the only Anti European party..............!!

How's that for choice

[dootybooty]

Well, Seven, let us look at why the UK steel industry nose dived.
1. The EEC was born out of the European Steel confederation.AN organisation set up between France and Germany so that Germanys steel prodcution could be monitored in case they decided to to start to build tanks and guns again.
2. When we joined the EEC we allowed ourselves to be open to competitive bidding from EEC countries.
3. EEC/EU regulations state that government contracts should go to the lowest bidder.
4. Italy consistently undercut all other countries. We ended up having to buy inferior steel from Italy for our railways. Those rails we bought are now having to be ripped up and replaced at enormous cost because they warp in hot weather or crack in the cold.
5, We produced a quality product to higher standards than were required by the EEC/EU. Our so called trading partners used political means to ham string the British Steel industry under cut it and helped in its destruction.
6. So thank you EEC for helping us out by throwing us a few crumbs from your table.

[Spannerman]

4. Italy consistently undercut all other countries. We ended up having to buy inferior steel from Italy for our railways. Those rails we bought are now having to be ripped up and replaced at enormous cost because they warp in hot weather or crack in the cold.
5, We produced a quality product to higher standards than were required by the EEC/EU. Our so called trading partners used political means to ham string the British Steel industry under cut it and helped in its destruction.
6. So thank you EEC for helping us out by throwing us a few crumbs from your table.

So Italy should pay compensation to those unfortunate victims and their families for the broken rail train disaster, British Steel was recognised as of the highest quality, even the Yanks bought it for wheels for the USA motor industry in Detroit, but then slapped huge tariffs on EU steel. Now we have virtually no steel industry left. The infrastructure is still in place in Llanwern and Corby surely it wouldn't take much to get that up and running again after 'independence'.

I just wish the few would not decide what is good/bad for the many. When referenda is held next year and if the people in various nations vote against their country belonging to the EU, will these so called leaders still lead us into the abyss?

[Lance]

What broken rail train disaster?

[mutter nutter]

The people of Eire will always follow the EU line, they have become very well off living off the backs of UK and Germany, best thing that ever happened to 'em was being allowed to join the likes of Greece Spain and a miriad other little countries on the EU bandwagon. If we pull out, the whole rotten edifice will collapse, Germany would never carry that load on its own. We are a world trading country, the EU needs us a damn sight more than we need them, and we are well able to uprate our manufacturing industries ,if required.


Aye Owdun.

Well first off it's the Republic of Ireland not Eire that hasn't been used in 50 year's and the only people who seem to still refer to it is the English, 2. Our sucess is based on the fact that we are the largest recipent of US direct foreign investment, 42 Billion dollar's, while you are worried about manufacturing everyone else has moved on to hi-tech industry, everyone is a "World trading Country" what ever that mean's, but it is true about people wanting the UK to stay, despite everything you are respected in Europe but on the other hand if you decide to leave we will just push on, there isno reverse gear

[Lance]

Our sucess is based on the fact that we are the largest recipent of US direct foreign investment, 42 Billion dollar's, while you are worried about manufacturing everyone else has moved on to hi-tech industry

Are you not at all worried about the long term future of these hi tech industries as the trend now seems to be this sector relocating to India and Asia?

[mutter nutter]

Our sucess is based on the fact that we are the largest recipent of US direct foreign investment, 42 Billion dollar's, while you are worried about manufacturing everyone else has moved on to hi-tech industry

Are you not at all worried about the long term future of these hi tech industries as the trend now seems to be this sector relocating to India and Asia?

Of course, but we can never go back to competing with those Contries on a cost basis, we'd lose every time so we focus on the high end of thing's software devlopment etc, Intell just annouced a 1.6 billion$ r&d facility here that's the sort of thing we look for now, and not everything in Asia is rosey didn't quiet a fewof those call centre's that left the UK come back because the the lower cost's didn't outweigh the problem's incurred

[Spannerman]

What broken rail train disaster?

HATFIELD, HERTS

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1132891.stm

[Seven]

Well, Seven, let us look at why the UK steel industry nose dived.

I'm not going to argue with you over wether or not the British steel industry profitted from the UK joining the EU, I'm sure what you state in your post is true. The point is there are lots of examples in every member state where certain sectors of the industry faired badly after joining the EU. At the same time there are just as many, or probably more, sectors that profit from the EU. Companies that do well just never seem to get in the news as much as companies that do badly. I'm sure we can go on forever naming examples of companies that went bankrupt because of the EU and naming companies that florished. I happen to believe that for Holland to pull out now would make my country poorer than it is now. And I believe the same goes for Britain.

[dootybooty]

Seven, I think Holland is probably better off in, but I have no right to say that as it is not my country. I think the EU would be better of with out France but I would not tell a frog that as that is poking my nose into someone elses business. The discussion we are having is one based on how people in Great Britain feel and while I respect your views as an individual thay are an irrelevance to this thread.

[Seven]

The question posed at the beginning of this thread is what do you think Great Britain should do. I've tried to explain what I think Britain should do, as have you. I find it a bit odd that it takes you 10+ of my posts before find out my opinion is irrelevant to to this thread. Most if not all posts of this forum are based on personal opinions, thats what a forum is all about.

[Spannerman]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, that is democracy, but Tony Blairs opinion is just that OPINION, he is signing away the UK's rights without the electorate having a say in it.

He may even win the day, if that is the way the electorate votes.

[Tab]

To mutter nutter, You get from the EU nearly a pound per person a week in grants more than you put in, what would happen if these grants stoped.
What would happen if Britain slapped tarrifs on your goods that you sold over here, What would happen if you needed a visa to visit or work here,
what would happen about the transport of your goods to Europe if they all had to go by sea. Britain puts more than £30 billion into the EU than it gets back in grants, we are the second highest payer behind Germany, now with out us just who would make up this short fall. Now the the Euro, just how long do you think that will be able to keep going, France and Germany are now over spending at a huge rate, Belgium and Italy never even came close to meeting the entry targets yet they got in and now they are spending money that other countries have put in the kitty, give it about 5 years and the whole lot will be in dire trouble. Many of the Middle Eastern Countries have been gettig out of the Euro in a big way also America has been downgrading it's holdings in the Euro. To be quite honest I do hope Europe moves on with out us we can't afford to stay.

[Jagger]

What will Britain do if it pulls out of the EU? It will have to do something. Maybe NAFTA? I'm not sure that the US even would want Britain in NAFTA at this stage. Britian is the US's greatest ally in europe and there is no doubt that the US will want strong sway in the EU. Bringing the UK into NAFTA might well be good for all parties, but the US will be restricted with the influence they have on the EU. The US was arrogant at the beginning thinking that the EU would be a non-entity. They're realising that this will never be true. So even the US will be pressuring the UK to make it work in Europe. Can the UK stand up to all this external pressure? Personally I don't care if the UK pulls out of the EU. It will definitely be very interesting to see what happens.