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The Patriot Act

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Wholley

The Patriot Act

#1 Post by Wholley »

My fellow Americans,Take a look at this,

http://www.isl.org/shadow.html

Advertise your company or services here and contact us today!

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Whitey
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#2 Post by Whitey »

Wholley,
There is nothing patriotic about this act. In reality it is treasonous, because it infringes on the Constitution in every clause. The Central Bankers, Political and Military traitors and their Gods the fortune 500 seem to be the only folks getting anything good from this.

Saw a deal where a kid who spilled some lab chemicals was arrested. Kid was charged under this act.

This legislation would not be neccessary in a free republic, however in a nation of cowards where young able bodied men cower at the challenge of a test of manhood I guess these savages feel they need it.

I'm done with this shit, I'm to the point of moving on.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)

Frank S.

#3 Post by Frank S. »

Wait guys! Pull up a chair, I'll get the popcorn:

Prosecutor in Terror Case Sues Ashcroft

By PETE YOST, Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON - The Justice Department has exaggerated its performance in the war on terrorism, interfered with a major terror prosecution and compromised a confidential informant, a federal prosecutor has alleged in an extraordinary lawsuit against Attorney General John Ashcroft.

The lawsuit by Assistant U.S. Attorney Richard Convertino is the latest twist in the Bush administration's first major post-Sept. 11 terrorism prosecution, a Detroit case jeopardized over allegations of prosecutorial misconduct.


Convertino was the lead prosecutor on the case, in which the government did not provide defense attorneys a letter alleging that a prosecution witness lied until long after a trial had ended.


In his lawsuit, Convertino says the Justice Department is retaliating against him because he has complained frequently and publicly about "the lack of support and cooperation, lack of effective assistance, lack of resources and intradepartmental infighting" in terrorism cases.


"These concerns directly related to the ability of the United States to effectively utilize the criminal justice system as a component in the `war on terrorism,'" says his lawsuit filed in federal court.


According to the suit, a senior official in the Justice Department's terrorism and violent crimes section informed Convertino that news reports concerning the department's anti-terror efforts were not accurate and that the "press gives us more credit than we deserve." The lawsuit alleges "gross mismanagement" in the terrorism and violent crimes section.


Convertino says he complained repeatedly to the Justice Department in Washington that it placed "perception" over "reality" to the serious detriment of the war on terror.


Justice Department spokesman Mark Corallo declined to comment.


Convertino came under internal Justice Department investigation last fall after telling a Senate committee of his concerns.


"Whistleblowers put a lot on the line to protect the public," Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, said Tuesday. "They deserve strong protections against intimidation, harassment, demotion or even dismissal for doing the right thing."


Regarding the Detroit case which Convertino handled, the government late last year turned over a jail inmate's letter to defense lawyers. In it, the inmate alleged that prosecution witness Youssef Hmimssa had lied.


A lawyer for Convertino has said he believes his client made the right decision in not disclosing the evidence because it wouldn't have affected the trial's outcome.


Months before the government turned over the letter, a jury found two defendants guilty of document fraud and conspiracy to provide material support for terrorism. One other was found guilty of document fraud but acquitted of terror charges. And the fourth was acquitted on all counts.


A defense attorney who faced Convertino in the Detroit case said one section of his lawsuit "seems completely unfounded."


Convertino alleges a lack of resources, but his resources "appeared to us to be completely unlimited," said James Gerometta, one of the court-appointed defense attorneys in the case.


The lawsuit includes excerpts of an e-mail from another prosecutor in the case that Convertino says "identified some of the gross mismanagement which was negatively impacting the ability of the United States to obtain convictions in a major terrorist case."


The e-mail from the other prosecutor shows he complained at the time that efforts by Justice's terrorism unit in Washington to "insinuate themselves into this trial are, nothing more than a self-serving effort to justify the existence" of the unit.

"They have rendered no assistance and, are in my judgment, adversely impacting on both trial prep and trial strategy," the e-mail cited in the lawsuit states.

Convertino also accused Justice officials of intentionally divulging the name of one of his confidential terrorism informants (CI) to retaliate against him.

The leak put the informant at grave risk, forced him to flee the United States and "interfered with the ability of the United States to obtain information from the CI about current and future terrorist activities," the suit alleges.

The prosecutor is being represented by the National Whistleblower Center, which has represented FBI agents and other whistleblowers in recent cases involving terrorism. Its chief lawyer successfully helped Linda Tripp win damages under the Privacy Act for the leak of information from her Pentagon personnel file after the Monica Lewinsky affair.

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#4 Post by Whitey »

My issue is why would politicians even entertain this anti-Constitutional crap. Sure some guy can sue, but the mortal wound has been struck, no lawsuit can restore liberty.
I brught this up at school and students think "Yeah man you are right, the Patriot Act is un-Contitutional. But think of the benifits!"
Some white, christian, slave owning, heterosexual once said that those who would trade liberty for safety deserve neither lberty or safety.

The Clinton administration made it cool to be a coward, and this one is making safety at any cost the accepted rule. Human life may be precious, but the soul is more important. Sure I can die, but I'll die anyway someday. I'd rather live a short free life than as the quote indicates make a whore of my soul.
The human spirit is fueled by liberty and extinguished by tyranny.

FTE
I want the Repulic back.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)

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#5 Post by Whitey »

Check this out.
A Witness From The Path: True Or False



Dear Sir,

I am a constant reader of your page. I am not Muslim nor I am a Jew (not that this would be relevant in any way on any decent longitude). I am an East European living in Canada for 15 years now. I lived in US for 21/2 years.

I do not want to get into any debates, not with someone with such a respectable military record like yourself. I just want to share few observations and end with few statements.

It is quite useful to try to look behind the propaganda, searching for the magic "Qui Prodest ?". Based on this I, observed that US media, in the last 15 years became more and more a government "mouth piece". What we see now (CNN, FOX &comp) resembles incredibly, the way communist propaganda worked in my neck of the woods, 20 years ago. The most unfortunate difference though is the fact that while in Eastern Europe nobody paid attention to it (I remember the disgust with which we were turning the TV's off at 8PM), appears that in US people tend to buy it happily, 24/7 on all the wavelengths. Now I know that somehow the mass product of the US school system is not quite at par with anything considered decent but as we all know, ignorance is of no help when the final bill gets to be paid... neither is it bliss.

The amount of "public lying" in the last 5-6 years is absolutely staggering... no matter the subject. Right now it has reached gigantic proportions. You economy for example, 42 weeks of continuous manufacturing losses, more than a year of $ decay, increased amounts of public and private debt... etc. Despite all this, you're told that everything is fine, no danger in sight and Media don't question. This much reminds me the commie line with "...the great achievements of the socialist agriculture (etc) and the statements of 6 tonns of wheat per hectare (about 2 acres)..."

This filled us with laughter since we all had family in the country side and we KNEW that 0.8-1.2 tonns would qualify for a great year. Due to ex-military career you are a man of numbers. We both know that numbers may be false, may be twisted but in the end, the results will prove them for what they are.

Even the twisted numbers that come out at ALL levels of your administration do not make ANY sort of sense. As one that I've witnessed a system's fall, I would advice for taking cover. Only at the terminally ill phase, the lies of such magnitude can go unchallenged (or with no results IF challenged). Communism in my ex-country cca 1990 was the strongest that has ever been. Talking with anyone in October, one would had no clue of what was supposed to happen in December. My point is that huge changes come apparently from nowhere. Signs are there though. And those signs in US right now are... blinding. I do not focus on any particular aspect of American woes... there are too many. Iraq or the economy or...you name it...are just forms of the same thing.

Most probably you've read the PNAC site. Most likely you've read that little PDF file cca late nineties where a well known chicken hawk was deploring international conditions that will not allow the Great American Century to happen..."....absent being an event of the Pearl Harbor magnitude". Two years latter... 9/11. I do not want to get into conspiracy theories because this is tricky. I can not stop however to think that historically, conspiracy is almost an American tradition....but this is not important. Should be important though, to know what prevented the jets to intercept (not shoot down... only intercept) those planes. They always did (the fighters that is)... there is a procedure after all. Should be interesting to know what happened within the 15 minutes the NORAD was called upon by the FAA. The rest is history... but the PNAC will most probably end very bad for all of us.

Dear Mr. Hackworth, I do believe that you are the citizen of an occupied country. I do think that the people have no clue to the extent the nation has been hijacked. I do believe that the fight is with the enemy within. I do not believe that this fight is winnable through ..."due democratic process"... since the FOX News Broadcast about the Israeli spies did NOT excite the Americans in taking to the streets in November 2001 (the last time FOX resembled anything
like a media outlet).

What is happening now in US it happened before elsewhere, but never at such extent. The fall of Roman Empire was a walk in the park (so to speak) compared to the fall of US. I do not believe that President Bush is the beginning and the end of your trouble. Nor as a matter of fact his replacement, whoever he is. They are just marionettes of the system. And this system has been hijacked. Whoever fought the system ended up a pariah or a shattered country.

Wish you luck. Truly,

Catalan Brea
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)

Frank S.

#6 Post by Frank S. »

Whitey wrote: students think "Yeah man you are right, the Patriot Act is un-Contitutional. But think of the benifits!"
Hmmm.... Guess they also think it great that the Nuremberg principles are applicable only to losers but not victors...

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#7 Post by Whitey »

Frank,
It's like this. Our ROTC guys careless about the Constitution, they don't know the difference between lawful or unlawful orders, and when talked to about it, they seem not to care. They just want their commission, to belong and to strut infront of Dad and proclaim "I'm good enough."

The other students even when this stuff is pointed out shrugg their shoulders because hey if they graduate and get a good job they can buy stuff, good stuff and proclaim infront of those that punked them out as kids "Look at my Lexus".

They don't care. Not that I believe in the Iraq war, but as a young man I'd enlist for the sake of the test of manhood alone.

Today I hit the class with we have the Patriot act because we value safety over liberty, and that Jefferson said that those who would trade liberty for safety deserve neither. That said I looked the ROTC section in the eye and said"So it is obvious we live in a nation of cowards." They looked at the ground, the others were trying to find that happy place in their minds.
The deal is I insulted every last one of them with an insult that a few years ago would have sparked a fight and they did nothing, said nothing, they didn't even disagree.
Frank, this is not my country. In my country men would have lined up to knock my teeth out, the instructor would have told me I was wrong, but that didn't happen.

I have no use for these people, I just want my degree and to get away from people, people like this anyway.

The Central Bankers, Corporations, Politicians, Judicial system and military is owned by the unquestionable people, it is obvious, they got the media too. Passion of Christ controversy proves this point on the media.
Let them call me a rebel and I welcome it, I feel no concern from it; but I should suffer the misery of demons were I to make a whore of my soul. (Thomas Paine)

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